I really love this interview because it challenges us to revisit and perhaps change our deep-rooted perspectives. For many of us, the concept that there is no good or bad, no right or wrong is a touch one, but, as Erik says, there are just lessons.
I hope you guys enjoyed the trance channeling event last night. I was so busy working on the book to meet a deadline that I couldn’t attend like I usually do. Did Erik behave himself?
Me: Erik, can you go get Adolf Hitler in here?
Jamie (nervously): Oh my god!
I giggle.
Erik: We’re really doing this?
Jamie: Yeah.
Me: Well, is it okay with you, Jamie?
Jamie: Mm hm.
(Long pause)
Jamie: Done.
Me: All right!
Jamie: No, he just left.
Me: Oh, he left.
Jamie: He was arguing with me. He goes, “I’m not going to go get him! You don’t treat him like an asshole. You treat him like a person. Don’t have any preconceptions.” And I was like, ‘Okay, fine, fine. I’m letting it go.’
Me: I’ve got some benign questions. I don’t have anything mean. (although he deserves to be raked over the coals for what he did.)
(Pause)
Jamie: I bet he doesn’t get called in for a lot of things for a casual discussion. He probably gets a lot of hate mail.
Me: Oh, poor guy.
I can’t believe I just said that, but…
(Long pause)
Jamie (to Erik): Yes, I’m ready!
Me: Oh?
Jamie: He just popped back in and said, “Are you ready?”
(Pause)
Jamie (to Erik, slightly irritated): Yeah, stop!
Me: It’s like, “Heeeeere’s Adolf!” instead of “Heeeeere’s Johnny!” and he comes out from the curtain.
Jamie: Oh my god.
(Pause)
Me: So, he’s there?
Jamie: Yeah, he’s here.
Me: Hello, Mr. Hitler. How are you doing?
Hitler: Fine, thank you.
Erik (to Hitler): Take a seat.
Me: What does he look like, and what’s his mood?
Jamie: He’s got very stiff posture. There’s nothing fluid about him. (In a hushed tone) Um, his eyes are really dark. His eyebrows are kind of sinking low like his eye sockets don’t have a lot of space. I don’t know if that makes sense.
Me (teasing): No, but go on.
Jamie: Droopy. Droopy eyebrows. You know, that skin above?
Me: Mm hm.
Jamie: He’s just looking out. I don’t think I’ve seen him blink yet!
Me: Wow. What is he wearing, a military uniform?
Jamie: No, it’s a dark, probably black suit, and he has a tie on underneath it with a kind of high collar.
Me: Okay.
Jamie: But the jacket is buttoned up, and there are several buttons to it. It’s not like a casual suit like we see today. He’s shorter than I thought he would be.
Me: Does he seem comfortable and relaxed now?
Jamie: No, he’s sitting straight up in the chair, very—
Me: Anxious? Nervous?
Jamie: Are you? No. He told me “no”.
Me: Oh, good. All right. Let’s start with the questions, then. Tell us about your childhood. Did it have anything to do with the atrocities you committed here on the earthly plane? I’m sorry’ I can’t think of another word.
Hitler: Every man’s life’s actions are based on how he was created.
Erik: So, is that a yes?
Jamie laughs.
Jamie: And you know what’s interesting? Erik is sitting on my side of the room. He’s next to me. Commonly, he stands next to the person we’re interviewing or sits next to them, but no, he’s on the same side of the room as I am. I almost feel like we’re interrogating him.
Me: Why is that, Erik?
Erik: I didn’t realize I did it.
Me: Okay. So, were there incidents in your childhood that caused you to do what you did?
Hitler: I never had much consistency in my family. There was not a lot of beauty. There was much disgrace within my family.
Me: What do you mean, skeletons in the closet?
Jamie and Erik giggle,
Jamie: Oh, Erik and I giggle at that, but he did NOT giggle.
Hitler: Yes. It is true that many lives in the family. I was displaced within my family.
Jamie: He’s saying he wasn’t raised by two traditional parents. The mother died, or the mother left?
Me: I don’t know.
Jamie: He’s showing me, as a child, he stopped having his mother. I can’t tell if she died or he moved. He’s not being very clear about it.
Hitler: I never thought I belonged to anyone. I was untethered, and I didn’t feel like I had any family or religion to lean on, not a country to feel a part of. I helped create that for myself.
Me: Ah!
Me: Was that the only reason you did what you did (his childhood hardships), or was there some sort of spiritual mission or contract involved?
(Very long pause)
Jamie: He says it was a spiritual contract.
Me: Can you elaborate on that? How was it supposed to help? What was your contract about?
Hitler: It is unfortunate—
(Pause)
Jamie (whispering): He’s got these dramatic pauses.
Hitler: –that the world requires conflict for a massive amount of joy.
Me: What?
Jamie: Mm hm. You heard it.
Me: I don’t understand it, though. They need conflict in order to have massive amounts of joy?
Hitler: This is the role I played. This is not the being I truly am.
Jamie: He’s talking about unzipping out of the identity that we perceive him as so he may discuss this life as Hitler as a third party.
Me: Okay. We can do that. Anything that makes you more comfortable. Okay, so you’re life as Adolf Hitler, which you are not. Um, you’re not that personality anymore. I understand that. What was the effect of that spiritual mission?
(Long pause)
Jamie: This is kind of weird to look at. I’m glad I’m not alone in the room. Erik keeps cutting his eyes at me like, “What?” Now there are two images of Hitler in the room. There’s the gentleman in the dark suit, sitting down. When he was talking about unzipping, he kind of stepped out of himself. The gentleman that’s standing next to him I know is Hitler, though I don’t know. He looks lighter. He’s has soft features. The way he’s standing is soft. His posture’s not stiff. He’s not as groomed to a T, so he looks more causal. He is wearing a suit, but the suit is open. He’s pointing to the Hitler sitting down, and he’s saying, “This is the man that you want to discuss. This is the role I played on Earth. This is what you wish to discuss. It’s hard to have a conversation through him, because all of the confusion, the hatred, the thoughts from all over the world that’s placed on his name.” I am not sad about this. The people have a right to be angry. They have a right to feel, though I do not regret the role and the contract I played for the world. This war that I created—
Jamie: It’s weird how he says I, not we. He totally takes it on himself. He’s not talking about countries.
(Pause)
Jamie: I asked him to back up. He’s being really kind to me.
Me: Good.
Jamie: The one standing. The one sitting is just—I swear to god, I don’t think that one has blinked. He’s still sitting very straight up.
Hitler: This war that I created has given our history a focus and example of what to avoid and what to not create. I don’t have regrets because of how the world was shaped after it. It made changes that every culture needed to create for itself that didn’t have the fight or struggle that would make it so. I gave them the fight and the struggle. I knew what I needed to do before I was born and why I came. I will take that responsibility. I will never veer from it.
Me: All right, so what was the effect. Was what you did mean to create more peace in the world?
Jamie is talking over me. I can’t make out what she’s translating.
Jamie: He just totally interrupted you!
Hitler: It gave respect to beliefs, to religions. It gave cultures a way to bond. It gave society a structure to grow, and it gave people rights. It helped hand feed humanity to get to where it is today.
Me: Was that what you were here to teach?
Hitler: Yes.
Me: Okay. What about to learn? Were you here to learn anything?
Hitler: I was there to learn a lot of pain.
Me: And why would that be necessary?
Hitler: Because of who I am on this side, I’ve never had pain. It takes a strong soul to come through, to create such chaos. It’s a misconception to believe that only evil can create evil on Earth.
Jamie gasps.
Me: Okay. So, you said you didn’t have any regrets about creating the war. Do you have any other regrets?
Hitler: I know very much—
Jamie: Okay, that’s translated a little bit weird.
Hitler: I know very much that people would want me to say how I regret the death and the suffering of so many people’s lives.
Me: Do you think you overstepped the boundaries?
Jamie: Oh my god. I hear “no”.
Hitler: This is what I was supposed to come in to do.
Me: Did you receive any help from your guides to create such a mass effect on the world?
Hitler: Yes.
Me: And what was your secret? How did you create this massive war? How were you able to convince the masses to make this all happen?
(Long pause)
Jamie: Holy shit! (Turning her head to Erik) Am I going to say that?
Me: Ah oh.
Jamie: Oh my god. You—I don’t wanna be in that. Can I type it out for you?
Jamie laughs.
Me: Sure, but why? Go ahead and say it! C’mon!
Jamie: Elisa. (Pause) I would never, uh, Erik.
(Long pause)
Jamie: Sorry. I didn’t mean to make such quietness!
Jamie giggles nervously. She’s clearly uncomfortable with whatever Hitler said.
Jamie: He said, “How did Jesus get so many followers? What did he do?”
Good god. That comparison seems like a bit of a stretch. I’m afraid to go on, but I do.
Me: And, what did he do?
Hitler: It is a charisma. It is an attraction to the person and the strength of that person’s beliefs. It’s the ideology of feeling safe and guided and taught. I provided a role that I could take care of this country, of these people, that through this war I would give them the greatness that they seek, and I found people who would help me. I had thousands doing my bidding and by choice, not by force. This is what so many people forget.
Me: Ah! Did you have any disease—mental or physical—that made you, um, I mean, that created some of your actions?
I laugh at my own stuttering.
Hitler: Physical?
Me: Yeah.
Jamie laughs.
Jamie: Egocentric n-na…. I was going to say what he was saying, but—
Me: I was going to say did something make you crazy, but that’s not exactly what I mean. It’s disrespectful, but that’s, you know—
Hitler: I believe any man who has accepted a role of power lets it go to his head, and if we want to consider that mental illness, then so be it.
Me: Okay.
Jamie: But no, if we ask him technically, no.
Me: Okay. Now, when you crossed over, what was your life review like? Did you have any epiphanies or realizations?
(Very long pause)
Jamie: He was telling me he remembers being afraid of death.
(Long pause)
Hitler: I’m not ashamed to say this out loud.
(Pause)
Jamie (to Erik): Did he, really? (To me) Erik was telling me he shot himself.
Me: Yep.
Jamie: I thought he got shot.
Me: No, he shot himself. Well, I don’t know. I’m pretty sure.
Erik (looking at Jamie): Nope.
Erik (pointing at Hitler, then pointing at himself): We’re in a club.
Jamie giggles.
Me (slightly upset): Oh, no. Oh, Erik. That’s not a good club to be in.
Erik: For different reasons.
Hitler: I didn’t want to be imprisoned. I didn’t want to suffer. I was terrified of that. It kept me awake at night.
Me: Obviously while he was alive (dur).
Jamie: Yes.
Me (laughing at my stupid remark): Yes, of course.
Hitler: So, after I died, I just remembered darkness for what I think was a long time—probably many Earth years. I believed it was necessary for me to help forgive myself and heal myself for the contract I agreed to.
Me: But eventually, you had your life review, right?
Hitler: No.
Me: You did not have a life review?!
(Pause)
Jamie: He did not!
Me: Wow. Interesting. When you woke up, and you reflected on your contract, did you have any epiphanies or realizations?
Hitler: Those years in darkness—that’s what helped me identify my contract and heal myself.
Me: Okay. I gotcha.
Hitler: I played this role for the greater cause of humanity. I did not choose this role or develop this role for self-centering needs.
Me: Can you share a life that most influenced your life as Adolf Hitler?
(Pause)
Jamie (shocked): No!
Me: Because you refuse to, or.,,
Jamie: Uh, I don’t think there’s a life! Can I share what I think it is?
Me: Go ahead.
Jamie: Like just from the way he’s talking and what he’s showing me?
Me: Mm hm.
Jamie: I don’t feel like Hitler’s spirit is kind of a mix of things like the average human. We reincarnate; we grow; we shift. It’s more of like—I cannot believe I’m going to say this—more of like an angelic energy.
Oh no. This is not going to get good reactions. I might have to be under the Witness Protection Program.
Me (in disbelief): Wow.
Jamie: I know, I—
Me: Like an archangel?
How could I be even thinking this of a man who’s committed such atrocities?
Jamie: No, and I don’t believe he’s an angel, either, but when I hear angels talk to me about being on Earth, they don’t take place in this reincarnation back-to-back where this grow thing happens over so many lives. They have really specific reasons to be on Earth, and so to have—cuz when you talk about a past life, you really couldn’t, uh, he couldn’t show me anything.
Me: Hm.
Jamie: I don’t feel like this is his one and only life on Earth, but I feel like it’s such a unique contract seed, you know, this gathering of purpose, that there really wasn’t an inflection—it really wasn’t based on any kind of character or purpose or development.
Me: I see. I understand. What would the world have been like if you had not done the things that you did?
Hitler: Still much separation between races and cultures.
Me: Okay. Anything else?
Jamie (chuckling): My god. He just smiled!
Hitler: I like to think I had influence on the industrial era.
Jamie: And he smiled. You can tell it’s something he took pride in.
Me: Well, he did.
Jamie: Design and factories and metals. He’s proud of that, but you know when you talk about the war and everything, there was no smiling and no pride behind it. It was designed. It was a contract.
Me: It was something he had to do but wasn’t proud of? Weren’t you ashamed of it?
Hitler: I cannot be. I did what I was meant to do.
Me: I see. Do you have any messages for humanity, at all? Any advice or messages?
(Long pause)
Hitler: We are in a world today, that if you feel strongly about your beliefs, you must stand up as an individual and make it heard, but it is very important to know what needs to be heard—
(Pause as Jamie listens to Hitler)
Jamie (to Hitler): Yeah, your translation is backwards again here.
(Long pause)
Jamie: Sorry. We’re talking about the way he just translated that. Cuz he said what needs to be heard must be based on the whole. He’s giving a lot of imagery with it. So, basically, if you believe in something, don’t follow somebody else’s ideas. Stand up for your own ideas. But the only way you know if those ideas are valuable is if they’re helping the whole, the entirety: the family unit that you’re in, the company that you’re in, the state, the governments, the nation, the world—it’s gotta be a united front, not a single front.
Me: Okay. How would you envision the perfect world to be?
(Long pause)
Hitler: Where there is no hatred.
Me: Mm. Will we ever have it?
Hitler: I see that we are getting close, and I know that the world can sustain it.
Me: Okay.
Erik (to Hitler): So, will we ever have it?
Hitler: For this, I don’t know.
Me: Okay. Now, Erik, what question do you have?
Erik: I wanna ask one thing: When you came out of that darkness, did you just look at yourself and say, “That was some fucked up shit!”?
Jamie: Believe it or not, that got the second smile out of him.
(Long pause)
Me: And?
Jamie: He’s pausing.
Me: Oh, okay.
Jamie (laughing): Sorry. The quietness again!
Hitler: I know where you are coming from. I understand where you are coming from, but that life to me was no surprise. I was designed for it.
Me: Okay. Jamie, do you have any questions?
Jamie (emphatically): Huh uh!
Me: Thanks so much. We’ve learned a lot from you. I hope that helps you, too.
Hitler: Thank you. Have a good day. Goodbye.
Jamie: The one sitting down stands up, straightens his pants, walks straight out. Doesn’t say goodbye to me, acknowledge me, nothing.
Me: Hm.
Jamie: And the other Adolf that’s standing more casually waves. The one standing had kind of a tan suit on. This was weird. It’s almost like the world has created so much thought and descriptions of who Adolf should be, even in spirit, that he can’t come out of that design, that container from what the mass of thoughts and emotions have put on him. So, it’s almost like he divided himself so that one image can live so that people can put their hatred in one place or that healing or whatever they’re doing in that one location, and he can still be himself and house that (other Adolf), cuz he’s definitely, like I said, he’s not backing away from any of it.
Me: Wow! It’s interesting. Okay. That was a really good interview. We’ll see what kind of response that gets from the blog!
Jamie: Holy shit. Can you—I almost just about fell out of my chair when you asked him—I can’t even remember the question…
Me: Yeah, about him being like Jesus or something? How did he—
Jamie (laughing): I looked at Erik and said, ‘Holy shit, I’m not saying it.’ and he said, “Fucking say it. C’mon!” He said I was being a p-u-s-s-y.
We both giggle.
Jamie: And that’s when I asked, ‘Can I write it down?’
Me: Nah, you can say it, and it’s going to go on the blog, so…
Jamie: Holy fuck.
Erik’s been a bad influence on Jamie, language-wise. I rarely hear her curse.
Me: No editing here.
Jamie lets in a loud gasp.
