I just want you guys to know that I in no way condone taking Ecstasy recreationally. People have died from it, but I do think it will have a place in using it under the guidance of a professional who is knowledgable about its dosing, who can administer it in a safe place, and who can help the patient in a guided journey to mental health and other issues. I’m posting this in two parts because it’s pretty long!

Me: What’s the effect of Ecstasy on anxiety, depression, borderline personality and other mental illnesses delivered in a medical psychiatric environment? We’ve covered this with other illegal drugs, but not with Ecstasy. Tell me about that.

Erik: I like it a lot.

Jamie (To Erik, laughing): Oh, Erik!

Jamie and I both laugh.

Erik: In terms of helping to heal the body?

Me: Mm hm. Yeah, or any spiritual benefits. spiritual journey and all that.

Erik: Well, first of all let’s define real Ecstasy versus kitchen sink Ecstasy.

Huh? There are different forms?

Erik: Ecstasy doesn’t have the visual, trippy effects. Your eyes stay the same, but your body has this sensation that any touch that comes its way is just delightful, wonderful. I think it would be extremely beneficial for those who are having anxiety about intimacy.

(Pause)

Jamie (Frustrated): He just went to talking so fast. He got on to sex therapy—going with a professional sex therapist—about the safety of intimate touch, being with your partner and being able to go into a drug-induced state where your boundaries are relaxed and you’re in a very private setting, very secure.

Erik: The mind doesn’t wander. The mind, on Ecstasy, is looking for delightful experiences: sounds, touch. Even combing your hair can be an incredible experience.

Me: Hm. Not that you ever did it!

Jamie is giggling at whatever Erik just said,

Me: No, no! I mean never combing your hair, not taking Ecstasy.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah. He got it. He goes, “Why does someone so good-looking have to touch that?”

Can you hear my eyes rolling?

Erik: This would unlock certain parts of the mind that stayed closed because of poor judgment or an injury. And even if we take it out of a sexual content and just open it up more towards treating introverts.

Me: Mm hm.

Erik: You know, they don’t really want to be overwhelmed by people or sound or chitchat, things of that nature. So, imagine if they were able to be hosted during a drug-induced state with Ecstasy and put into, not an overwhelming situation, but a situation where they feel like they can engage with the music, the sound, the environment and then upon coming out of it, be able to recognize that regardless of the circumstances, they’re still in control. The introvert or personality disorder doesn’t have to run their life. Through having this experience, it gives them the knowledge that they have the power to control whatever’s happening to them. Most people just surrender to the idea that if they have a personality disorder or some kind of tic or whatever that that’s who they are, and they can’t change their brain. They think they’re just  hard-wired that way.

Me: Mm hm.

Don’t you just love my contribution to these discussions?

Erik: Well, it’s not really hard-wired that way; it’s just that you’ve either reached a limit in whatever area we’re looking at. Maybe it’s conversation or intimacy, you know, being in the public, and you shut down. And people think that if they naturally shut down, then that’s their limit, and they shouldn’t go beyond that. That’s the bullshit part, because you can train yourself, teach yourself, or do something extreme like [Ecstasy] which allows yourself to step out of the norm. The use of drugs—this is going to be hard to digest for many people but I stand by this.

Jamie: I cut my eyes over at him and he goes, “It’s okay, Jamie.”

I chuckle.

Erik: The use of drugs gives you this understanding that you are bigger than what your brain tells you that you are. You are different than what your conscious brain tells you that you are. You are allowed to access that underlying current that you have naturally but choose not to use, and mostly you choose not to use it because you feel like you don’t have the strength, that maybe it doesn’t resonate with you or that you’re unaware of it. It should be on everybody’s fucking plate.

I get really nervous about this, but the guy’s allowed to have his own opinion, I guess.

Me: Okay, so let me just confirm this. What you’re saying is that even while you’re not on it, once you had that experience, it’s taken down those borders and makes you realize that your brain does not control you. You carry that on even though you’re no longer on it?

Erik: Yes!

Me: Okay. Does Ecstasy do anything about vulnerability? Does it help you become comfortable with being vulnerable?

Erik: Absolutely, because if you’re in a controlled, guided use of this drug, whether you’re in a private or pubic setting, the safety that the person who’s hosting you, that safety that that person gives you, that will carry over. They’re not going to tell you what to say or do. They’re just going to make sure you’re okay and that you’re safe. So, when you come out of it, you realized that all of the experiences that you had and that you weren’t being told no or that it was wrong. You followed your intuitive instinct or what you wanted or what you needed. So when you come out of it, you recognize that the choices that you were making weren’t governed by the personality trait that keeps you in a box or contained and you did okay. You didn’t suffer. You didn’t die.

Me: Yeah, that’s true, but all these drugs, we’re going to put this on the blog so what do you say about the fact that these are illegal? You’re sounding like you’re condoning it.

Erik: No, for this—now I get really pissed that marijuana is illegal. I believe that alcohol should be illegal and marijuana should be legal. You wouldn’t have drunk driving. You know you don’t have “high driving”. “I was high driving and wrecked at speeds of 70 miles an hour.”

Me: If anything they’d probably be going 10 miles an hour.

Erik: That shit just doesn’t happen! But with the hallucinogens, I’m all for them being illegal. I’m all for it not being accessible to the everyday person.

Me: For recreational use.

Erik: Yeah, for recreational use.

Me: But for medical use…

Erik: Ahh!

Jamie (giggling): I nailed that sound by the way.

Me: That’s good!

Jamie (still giggling): That’s exactly how he just did it! It made him laugh. He was like, “Wow!”

(Pause)

Jamie: I threw myself off a little bit on that one.

Erik: It should be in every therapist’s repertoire. There should be a specific therapist that works with hallucinogenic drugs.

Me: Oh! Yeah!