Me: Anyway, let’s go to the sister of anxiety and go on the depression. A lot of people out there are depressed now, and of course it seems like there’s more incidence of depression now. What’s behind that, spiritually? Why do people get depressed?

Erik: There is, first, let’s not get it confused, Mom. Those are sisters?

Me: Okay, brothers! I don’t know! They’re enemies; they’re opposites. You tell me.

Jamie leans back and laughs hard.

Jamie: He’s teasing you.

Erik (with a girlie-like enthusiasm): Anxiety, depressions, sisters forever!

Me: BFFs. They’re BFFs

Erik: Yeah, depression has this magical way of making you feel like nobody understands you. I’d like to call it a curse, but that’s not the truth. You’re experiencing the depression because you can’t ground yourself or link yourself into your life, into what’s happening. And some of it’s a bit of a safety mechanism to where you withdraw, you come in. So, a lot of this depression is very valuable because when you draw in, you have time to look at yourself. You have time for quiet internal dialog and direction. The catch is you gotta fucking come out of it, right? So the pulling in part for moments here and there and here and there and here and there—

Enough already!

Erik: —can actually benefit you. But if you’re choosing to stay in it or if you’re just unaware of how to get out of it, this is like getting caught in a dryer.

Jamie (giggling): In a dryer?

Me: What?

Jamie: I know, and that’s the visual I have in my head—this tiny person in a big, huge dryer and it’s just looping; it’s spinning.

I chuckle. Some of the images he sends her!

Erik: You’re spinning all your energy, and you’re trying not to tumble, not to tumble, not to tumble, that you’re not even thinking about opening the door and stepping out. You’re trapped in this, and it’s taking so much energy and it’s exhausting to try to stay upright. You don’t even think about opening the door and stepping out.

Is it just me, or is he repeating things over and over?

Erik: The overall, not kind of spiritual tone—I mean, I guess it’s more of a spiritual tone, not a lesson, because people step into depression for—now this is a variety of reasons. I can’t even put it into one or two pockets. It’s like millions of pockets of why we come into this, but the lesson that you do get out of it is how you go internal, how you cut ties from your entire surroundings and look at the self, look at you. The golden nugget is—

Jamie (chuckling): Golden nugget.

(Pause)

Jamie (to Erik): I get it. Move on.

Erik: — is how to address yourself without a broken mind.

Jamie (looking puzzled): I’m asking him to explain it.

Erik: Cuz when you go inward and you cut all the ties, then most people want to fall into, “I’m alone; I’m alone; I’m alone. Nobody understands me; nobody understands me” and it’s rote. It just goes again and again and again.

Me: Like that dryer.

Erik: Like the dryer. But the beauty of that depression is when you’re able to separate all those ties, pull in to those quiet moments but not have the broken record play and play and play. Instead, say, “I’m here for a moment in time. What can I see from where I’m standing?” to look out but not engage out. Depression doesn’t let you engage. It closes you in.

(Pause)

Jamie: He doesn’t know where to go from here, so he’s giving the ball back to you.

Me: All right, so how do you reach out? That’s easier said than done! How do you get out of your shell, just by being more conscious about it and saying, “Okay, I gotta get out of my shell.”? That’s not easy when you’re in the throes of depression.

Erik: Yeah, and most of the time people don’t even know to ask. They think it’s just normal or that they’re having a crazy fit and that crazy fit will go away soon.

Jamie (dropping her head and sighing): He’s getting loud again!

Erik: I hope anyone who’s watching or anyone who’s listening—when you don’t feel right. When…you…don’t…feel…right, whether you think you’re crazy, whether you think it’s just for a moment in time, whether you feel like it’ll heal naturally on its own or whether you think there’s no end in sight, if you don’t feel (air quotes) right, which is your definition of balance or security or safety, you need to touch base with someone. C’mon, you guys have buddies to tell each other when to—

Jamie (blushing): He said, “to rub your boobs” but the vision is clearly checking for lumps in your breast”

Me (Letting out a surprised guffaw first): Okay, good.

Erik: Boob buddies, right?

Jamie and I both giggle.

Erik: Why can’t you have depression buddies or “I don’t feel right” buddies, and as soon as you’re “off” you go and check in with this buddy be it your therapist, your doctor, your mom, your dad, your best friend, your sibling, whoever, and saying, “Feeling fucky today. Don’t know what it is” and they can say, “Well what do you need?”

Not playing with my boobs, that’s for sure. Unless it’s Antonio Banderas and then I might at least think about it.

Erik: They can help you with some questions and then you’ll know, “Okay if I’m calling you every day here, then I probably need to seek extra help” or that depression buddy can say, “You need to go get professional help or someone who’s going to understand you better than me.”

Me: Okay, so Erik, if I get a boob buddy, will you get a testicular lump buddy?

Jamie (Laughing hard swaying back and forth in her chair): He’s cracking up so hard!

Erik: Deal. Deal.

Me: I can just see that. Not getting a good visual. This is probably a good time to stop.

Jamie (still laughing) gives the “cut it off” sign.

Jamie: He’s giving the Captain Morgan where one of his feet is up on my table (and his fist under his chin.) And yeah. (Grinning nervously) That’s all.

Me: Hmm. There must be something more to that, but we’ll stop.

Jamie grins widely and moves her head in short nods.

I wonder what that was all about. I think I know. What about you guys?