Dr. Andy Hahn on the End Of Suffering

The interview that I had with Dr. Andy Hahn was one of the most fascinating I’ve had. It seems like, with his technique, there is NOTHING he can’t cure: mental, physical, or emotional. I really want him to do a CE event to demonstrate his healing technique and to heal the attendees. Would you be interested? I’ll insert a poll at the end of the YouTube.

First, I want to share my awesome experience at the Mayan Dude Ranch in Bandera, TX (The Cowboy Capital of the World.) I first went there at the age of six, and I loved it so much, that on the last day, I hid from my parents. Sadly, they found me. By the time I became a teenager, they probably regretted that. I’ve taken my kids in the past, and now it’s time to start on the grandkids. Arleen loved it so much, she said she never wanted to leave. Check these out:

Cowboy Breakfast Trail Ride

Axis Deer

Cozy Cottage

Bullwhip Lessons

Bullwhip Wrap

Hungry Deer

Hunting for Dinosaur Tracks

Medina River

Roping Lessons

Wild Turkey

Arleen did better in roping than any of the others, adults and kids alike. Me, I probably did the worst!

There are so many videos to post, so I’ll save some for next time.

Here’s the poll: 

In his interview Andy gave the email “info@lifecenteredtherapy.com” however that email isn’t working. The correct email is info@guidedselfhealing.org. Please be sure to subscribe to Andy’s mailing list through his new website at www.lifecenteredtherapy.com. He’s having several training events in the next few months:

First, there is a seven day intensive that is made up of weekends 1 and 2 of the Year I training on January 30-February 4, in Waltham MA. There is also a weekend 1 of the full Year I training on February 13-15 in Waltham, MA. More information about all of his trainings can be found here: https://www.lifecenteredtherapy.com/registration

If people are interested in sessions, Andy’s practice is full but other practitioner information can be accessed here: https://www.lifecenteredtherapy.com/find-a-practitioner

Enjoy the transcript for this session!

Elisa- Hello there Dr. Hahn, I hope I’m pronouncing that right?

Andy- You’re pronouncing it right.

I went to your site and its absolutely amazing, and I think what you offer to the world is so crucial. I think everybody needs to look into what you have to offer and you are here to, of course I want you to talk about yourself, but I think your purpose is to help people stop suffering. The only reason that I know about stopping suffering is because I have had a lot in my life because of a very horrible childhood of broken bones type abuse, but I have learned to see the value in it. I am so grateful for everything I have suffered through, of course I complained a lot till I got older, but if I had not suffered all that I would probably would be a horrible, selfish, shallow bore. But I learned how to be assertive, learned how to be a better parent, learned how to be compassionate, super nurturing you know…Then when I learned how to … then when I learned how to express the gratitude it was liked whoosh! and you’re on…

Andy-Thank you. I think you’re right on actually, and what I have to say is I think that when people come in and are suffering about something there’s 2 levels that we have to hold people on. One is the level of the humane and on a human level, when something horrific has happened, the most you can say is that it’s the most horrific thing that happened. But on a whole other level if you don’t think that there’s anything about healing and growth and soul growth, then all you will ever be is a victim. So, it is to try to hold both simultaneously to honor the human suffering and to also say that in some way it served. We may not always know how it served at the time but there’s always a way it is serving our healing and growth. You could say ultimately it served the growth of life, so I guess I would say right on to you, what you said is very touching to me.

Elisa -Well being a victim is robbing yourself of your power and I didn’t want to be a pawn on the chessboard, I wanted to be a chess player. But do you want to tell me how you fell into this beautiful endeavor of yours?

Andy- I’ll tell you a little bit about how I fell into it ok, I’ll tell you how as you say people can take back the power a simple way that anybody can do it.

Elisa -Okay.

Andy- How I got involved in this was… by training I’m a Clinical Psychologist, so I had a doctorate in clinical psychology, and after that I was kind of edgy to begin with. About 4 years after that I had some very unusual experiences, and they ended with an experience where I visited a friend who was on spiritual retreat. She had fallen the day before I met her and she had very, very badly hurt her ankle. This was 1990, I think. She wanted to show me a place called the self-realization fellowship. She had gone to Yogananda’s ashram and so we were walking around the holy grounds of the fellowship and she was in so much pain. She sat down and she said basically said “you are going to have to carry me out I am in so much pain” and I sat down next to her. I actually went to sit in a very strange spot it turned out as I wanted her to put her foot up on my leg, and the second that I sat down I was flooded with a brightness that was really quite inconceivable to me.

I said to her, “Roshan why don’t you just give me your ankle” and she gave me her ankle and I started just experiencing this energy flowing out of my hands to her ankle. I did that for about 5 seconds and then I had a sense that it was done and I looked up and she said “you know I can read auras don’t you.” This was 1990, before I knew much of anything, and I said, “Roshan what do I know about auras? I’m a nice jewish boy from Boston.”

She said, “Are you aware there is pure light coming from the crown of your head, to the center of your chest through your hands to my ankle?”

And I said, “I’m not aware of it the way that you’re talking about it, but I know what you’re saying is true.” And then we looked down at her ankle and it had been really badly swollen, discolored, and she was in excruciating pain. And there was no swelling, no discoloration, no pain, and she got up and walked away. At which point I said to myself, “we’re not in Kansas anymore.”

Then I spent the next 2 years of my life, training in everything I could to deepen my understanding of what had happened there and how to integrate it with the semi-traditional psychology I was doing. I did mystery trainings, I studied energy and eastern traditions, and I studied past life regression therapy, and I studied psychosynthesis, I studied the enneagram, which we’ll talk more about. If people don’t know the enneagram, I think it’s the most profound tool for understanding people from the inside out and really a profound tool for knowing what your unique spiritual path is.

I studied all this stuff for about 2 years. And at the end of 2 years, I had a meeting with a friend and she said, “oh you have to go see this woman she is doing miracles in New Jersey.”  I said okay. And she told me a story, and the story was that she was at this workshop and this woman who was running it, her name was Judith, had a session with a woman who had such a bad case of asthma that she could barely walk up the stairs, she was wheezing so badly. And so what Judith did was, my friend didn’t know much about this, but she said she used this process called kineasology or muscle testing which I had never heard of 28 years ago. And the muscle testing said that this woman was supposed to tap all over her body while she told her story.

I said that’s interesting because I didn’t know about acupressure interventions.

Elisa -Was that like EFT?

Andy-It was EFT which was a precursor to TFt which came out of Callahan tapping. And Judith was one of Roger Callahan’s original students.

Elisa – Oh my gosh, you know so much dude

Andy-I know a lot! What can I tell you?

Andy-So anyway she was having her tap all over her body and then the muscle testing, the kinesiology said the asthma was balanced. Judith is a strong personality, and she said to the woman, “why don’t you go outside and walk and see if you feel any different?” The woman started to walk, and she started to run. She ran up and down the street and said, “that’s weird, I haven’t been able to run a step in seven years.”

That is the story I was told and I said that’s interesting. So, I went and studied with Judith. If you’re interested in the history of this, I can tell you but it’ll take a while, but Judith and I put together what she knew, which was NLP and a lovely protocol from a craniosacral therapist whose name is Mary Louise Muller and some of her own research on loss and violence traumas and the tapping work. And I took everything I knew about psychology, spirituality, and energy and what at the time I would have called regression therapy. Except, I don’t believe in regression therapy and I’ll tell you about that and why in a second. Because I don’t think you can ever be retraumatized when you doing healing work and most psychologists think you can, and I’ll tell you why they think so and why I have a different perspective about it.

But anyway, so we worked together and put together what we call now call Life Centered Therapy, and what she calls Healing from the Body Level Up. But her perspective is much more I would say…Judith is a research scientist and was very built in the medical model, while I’m a soul level psychologist. So, you could say that our emphasis was different. I believe very much in healing, and I think healing essentially means one of two things. And I don’t think it means cure. I think healing and cure aren’t the same thing.

So, when someone comes to me with any kind of difficulty they are suffering about, I don’t care what it is, it could be chronic pain, it could be autoimmune disease, it could be depression, it could be anxiety, it could be bad relationships, it could be alienation; I say to them I will give you a guarantee that if you finish the work one of 2 things will happen. Either your problem will go away or your suffering about your problem will go away to such degree, as you said, that you’ll no longer be anxious about it, no longer be judgmental about it, you won’t be comparative about it. You’ll view it in the sense that it’s just one more thing I’m experiencing that has served life in some way.

Elisa -Yes

Andy-You might be sad about it but you won’t be suffering about it.

I’ll tell you what I believe about suffering and trauma because I believe they are the same thing. So I think people only go for healing for one reason, which is there’s something that couldn’t be handled and integrated.

I think trauma is something you can’t handle and integrate, and trauma is why people suffer. So I think,” you can call it anything you like and I’ll just call it something you can’t handle and integrate ok? So that makes what healing is” very simple. All you’re doing is mastering what you couldn’t handle and integrate.  That’s healing.

Elisa- Can you give an example of a particular situation where you could not master and integrate something? And what that whole integration looks like? I believe everything has a spiritual basis and sometimes its our souls. If you have autoimmune disease it’s your soul saying something, like that you’re taking life for granted, or I don’t know.

Andy-I’ll tell you what I think ok? First of all, let me tell you how you do it and then I’ll tell you an example of it. Whenever there is something you can’t handle and integrate, in that moment a discomfort is born, just like Elisa was born in a moment, a discomfort was born in a moment. So when you can’t handle or fully integrate something, immediately in that moment a discomfort is born ok?.

And I would say- lets say you’re feeling anxious and I say when you are feeling anxious, Elisa, what do you feel in the body? You say oh my throat’s closing up okay let’s suppose. I’m going to say something funny to you, its not that Elisa is feeling anxious, it’s “throat closing up” is anxious. That’s its name.

Your name is Elisa and its name is “throat closing up”. And “throat closing up” was born in a moment when something happened that couldn’t be handled and integrated, and the sensation and your anxiety is a clue about the thing that couldn’t be handled and integrated. And what you’re going to do, is you’re going to choose to become the body sensation, and when you choose to become the body sensation, you go from being the one who is the character in the story, to the one who is witnessing or hosting the character in the story and then you’re no longer stuck.

I’ll give you an example a simple example of what I mean and I’ll give you as many stories as you like.

Let’s suppose someone’s in my office and a car backfires and they suddenly have a panic attack, and they say “oh my god I have problems with cars backfiring, I have panic attacks.” And what’s really going on with that person is 40 years ago, let’s suppose, he was the head of a troop of soldiers in a warzone, and he thinks he should have been more careful, but he wasn’t careful enough and he walks his troops into an ambush and bombs go off and many of them die.

He feels like he has betrayed them. He isn’t able to handle and integrate his sense of “I’ve betrayed them.” And I’ll give you another story about this actually, I’ll tell you which story I’m going to tell you and we’ll go from there.

He comes in, a car backfires and then he is no longer in my office, he’s 40 years ago reliving that scene over and over and over again. Now the reason he’s doing it is because he is still that soldier. His problem isn’t the bomb going off, in his case it is betrayal which I could find out. So, the bomb going off is only secondary, he believed he betrayed trust and couldn’t handle that. So let’s suppose he chooses to become the body sensation and then suddenly I say “throat closing up what is happening to you? what are you here to share with us? What is happening to you?” And whatever he says is the answer to the question.


Andy-He might say “Oh my god I am remembering that I am leading these troops, and I should have known better, and they are all getting ambushed and I’m thinking that I was a terrible leader, and they are all dying in front of me”.

So, he’s now telling his story, but it’s not his story, it’s the story of “throat closing up” because nothing is happening to him 40 years later. “Throat closing up” is still there and as soon as you do that you are no longer in the story, you have chosen to remember it. And the next time the car backfires … he’ll say “oh I’m the one over here and this is reminding me what happened 40 years ago but I’m no longer living it out. And maybe I had to learn something about betrayal or I had to learn something about forgiveness.”

But as soon as you become the sensation and choose to become it and you tell its story, and you give it anything it needs other than just to be able to share its story, the sensation will go away and you’ll immediately know that something is different.

Now I’ll give you another example like that. We had a woman who came in and she said that she was in a horrific accident 7 years before, and has been in constant back pain every since. She was very wealthy and had gone to every kind of doctor you could imagine- psychologist, chiropractor, specialist and nothing was touching the pain and nobody knew why. She came to one of our demonstrations she had actually set up a session with me, but she came to a demonstration, and muscle testing indicated I was to do a demo with her.

She said, “Andy I can’t do this sitting down, because if I sit for a couple minutes my back hurts so badly.” And she had said, “I’m sorry if I disturb you but I have to stand up and sit, I can’t sit down [because of the pain]”.

So, I do some muscle testing and I asked [my diagnostic] if backpain is the biggest problem and was the important thing to work on for today and it said no. and I kind of have mapped out the universe and it said her biggest problem was betrayal, and all of her back pain was only about betrayal. It also said all of her backpain wasn’t physical, it was energetic. And she was sure it was physical, but muscle testing indicated that it was totally energetic. Using muscle testing, I also found out also that the betrayal story took place not in this lifetime but in another lifetime, what’s called a karmic past life. If I say other lifetimes are you okay with it?

Elisa – Yeah sure, I believe the past, present, and future are all happening right now. I think there is no linear time, that’s a human construct.

Andy- So do I, and that’s why I don’t think there is regression. Because if you’re doing regression, you have to think of linear time.

But in a linear time way this story crystallized in another lifetime in the past. So I find out that the thing she needs to work on isn’t her back pain but betrayal. Muscle testing said she was stuck in a story around betrayal. I had her focus on what’s happening in her body, and she is standing at this time, and makes a statement “I betrayed a sacred trust”. And when she said that I checked with her body through muscle testing. It stayed strong and the answer was yes, and so and when she said that, her back pain, which was not so terrible at the time, had become excruciating.

So, I said here’s what I want you to do. Just place all your attention on back pain, because back pain has come to share a story with you and now I’m going to talk to back to pain. Back pain, teach me what have you come to share, where are you beginning? what’s happening? And she brings her attention there and says, “this is very strange. I am wearing a toga and I can see I’m leading this large army and there is another army across from us. I’ve decided its ridiculous that we should fight and die and I have gone up to this other general and we decide we fight each other and whoever wins, the other army will become slaves to that army. We made an agreement.”

Elisa- what a deal!

Andy- Good deal! So the general goes back to his army and says, “I’ve got this, you guys don’t need to fight, I am going to make this happen”. And what happens is that they are in the desert and the general is a bit arrogant and nonchalant. Because of that, the other general trips him and he falls down onto his back and tried to roll over onto his stomach and gets knocked over onto his stomach by a wind gust. And all this sand gets blown all over him and he rolls onto his stomach and he sees the other general go behind him and he sees him lifting up his sword and the last thing he is thinking “I’ve betrayed thousands and thousands of people” and “I think I must have died.”

So, I said you have 2 problems. The first is that you died believing you betrayed an awful lot of people and the second is that you didn’t let yourself fully die because it was too painful for you so you disassociated it, you left your body before you had actually died. You have 2 problems, the first is I have only final thoughts and feelings of “I have betrayed” and the second is you’re not in your body when you die, so you have 2 problems.

So, here’s what you are going to do. You are going to choose to come back into your body right before you die and you’re going to let yourself fully die, but before you go the light which is where most people go to, you’re going to go the souls of these men and you’re going to do a forgiveness practice and make amends with them. The souls of these men are there and you can make amends, and all you can do is say I’m so sorry because I did this thing to you.

You don’t get defensive, rationalize, feel guilty or anything. So, he finds the souls of the men and he’s ready to be totally castigated, and they laugh at him and say we forgave you 2000 years ago because we can take care of ourselves and been preparing for this forever and you wouldn’t let us fight. We had to learn to take care of ourselves and you weren’t going to take care of it anyway.

Elisa -Oh oh. It was a spiritual contract a for both of them!

Andy- And this woman has a smile on her face and she sees this light and says, “I’m going to this light,” and she says “I am the light and I am done”. That took about 25 minutes, that whole story, and then what happens is she sits down.

Because she was tired and she was standing the whole time. And she sits down and she starts to talk to people.

I will tell you the story she tells other people about her accident which is fascinating. She is with a group of moms and they are near the water and the kids are learning to swim, there is no lifeguard and the mothers are supposed to watch the kids.

Elisa – This is present life right?

Andy-Yes. It’s her turn to watch the kids but she gets preoccupied and she looks out there and it looks like one of the kids is really in trouble. So, she races out to try to save this kid. She gets knocked over by a wave, just like she got knocked over by the sand in the past life, s he falls onto a very sharp rock right on the spot on her back she had been stabbed in in the past life. All the kids get out and she gets dragged out of the water and has been in excruciating back pain for 7 years ever since and no one can find out why.

Elisa – Retriggered the event?

Andy-Actually, it’s not retriggered, it’s calling back the event like it’s a magnet, as a way to try to master them. On one level we trigger them, but on a soul level we co-create these things to heal them.

So, she’s telling us this whole story she’s sitting there for an hour, people are telling us what their experiences are and asking questions. And after an hour she says, “this is impossible… I am not feeling any back pain at all and I’ve been sitting for an hour.”

Elisa – In 25 minutes, while she has spent 7 years trying to get some kind of relief! Now can this also be for like other things, commitment, vulnerability or depression, or a lot of accidents.  My sister is constantly breaking bones. Can you use it for all of those things?

Andy-Yes all of those things. Everything. I’ve seen people with horrific accidents, depression, ritual abuse, I saw a woman who, I I could tell you story after story. I saw a woman with DID, what used to be called Multiple Personality Disorder with psychotic features, who thought ants were crawling all over her, that went away in one session. She had been hospitalized at least once a year before I saw her as she was psychotic and she had lost time and I found out what that was, which you wouldn’t believe, but we took care of it.

Elisa: I would believe anything you say!

Andy: Well, it was an amazing story, it’s one story I wish I had on videotape, I’ll tell you this story briefly because its so moving to me. She had the worst history of anyone I’ve known and I have known a lot of history. I know people with a lot of ritual abuse. She had a history of incest, of multiple rapes, she watched her mother kill her sister right in front of her with a revolver. All of which happened when she was very young. And muscle testing said none of this was the cause of her losing all this time and feeling psychotic. It made her predisposed to it, but it wasn’t the problem. The problem was that some energy took her over, so I muscle tested and it said all of her DID, her multiple personalities was because some energy took her over.

I asked her, does that make sense to you that some kind of energy took you over when you were 8? Because muscle testing is saying that. She says, “I know exactly what you are talking about.”

She was Southern Baptist, her father is giving a brimstone ceremony, now we wont talk about her relationship with her father, but let’s say it was not so pretty. She said this energy came in that day and it took me over and I have never been the same since, and she was seeing a psychiatrist because of other shit that was not being talked about. She told the psychiatrist this and he said you’re crazy and put her on Thorazine.

Elisa – Oh, too bad. When people are really depressed or have a lot of negative emotions they attractive negative entities to them, so totally makes sense, I’ve met a lot of people in psychiatric hospitals that are hearing voices too, they are just channeling spirit.

Andy-But if they can’t handle and integrate it, then its trauma, and we have words for that. But in her story, she told her psychiatrist and he put her on Thorazine and she vowed never to tell anyone this again. And this was thirty years later and I’m muscle testing her and it says that her problem is a superimposition, and something has superimposed itself on her. We go back when she was 8 and what I say is, “you’re going to feel this thing in your body and you’re not going to be it you’re going to be you. Focus on the you that is being taken over.”

She does that and muscle testing is telling her she knows what to do to take care of it, which was a shock to both of us. This woman was 1/60th native American and she starts to do this dance in my office, in this beautiful spiral of life shape, which she knows nothing about. After about a minute she looks at me as if what am I doing? And the minute after that you can feel the room shake, it lights up and she says I’m done. And you know how many times that woman was hospitalized after that?

Elisa -None!

Andy- So that’s what I do. You come to me and say I’m suffering about something, which means you have a judgement about it or you’re anxious or comparative about it. Instead of saying “Why hast thou forsaken me?” As opposed to “Forgive them because they are blind”. So, any time you have any anxiety or judgement, you are suffering. So what you do is, you just go into the suffering by feeling the sensation and then whatever comes is going to be it.

But then you have a problem because the thing that you think is the problem may not be the problem. Like the guy with the car back firing, his problem is betrayal, but he might not know that. So, I have to find out what the truest intention is or it may not be what you say, it may be a symptom of a deeper intention right?

Elisa -Right

Andy-Like the woman who has the accident also, same idea. Or the woman who says the biggest problem is that I lose all this time, that wasn’t her problem. The problem is something took her over and broke her field into pieces right? So, she may not know that, so I have to find out what your highest intention is. And I have to find out where you’re stuck, is it when you are 8 years old, or is it another lifetime, or your ancestor’s, or another dimension? And if you can ask the questions you can find the answer.

Elisa – I remember now what muscle testing is, but the rest of viewers might not. If its solid when you touch them, not solid, go ahead and explain.

Andy-I’ll explain

Elise-I also want to ask you if you need to be in person to do muscle testing or can you do it online too?

Andy- The way I’ll answer your question is to tell you about the 4 levels of wisdom. The first level of wisdom is the wisdom of the conscious mind. So, I say Elisa, what’s your name? You say I can figure that out, my name is Elisa!

Andy- So if I say, Elisa how much is 2 plus 2, you say I can figure that out.  If you came to me for therapy for anxiety and depression, and I asked how come you are anxious and depressed, you’d say if I knew the answer to that I would not have come to you. So, we can say the wisdom of the conscious mind is limited so we’ll give it the power of one.

Then there’s the second level of wisdom called the unconscious mind.  So, Elisa has a dream or an image comes to Elisa or she says something and she says “Why did I say that?” or something. Either we have a deeper level of wisdom or it doesn’t exist. If she tries to figure it out, she doesn’t get very far. So, she would have to find someone who understands dreams, so its either deeper or it doesn’t exist. I’d say its way deeper I think dreams are like letters from your soul kind of. I would say if conscious wisdom has the power of 1, unconscious wisdom has the power of the speed of light.

Elisa-Is it your higher self?

Andy-Yes, it’s your higher self, which is about soul. The third level of wisdom there are a lot of good words for if you are in the East. In China it’s called Chi like Tai Chi, in Japan Ki like Reiki, or in India it’s called Prana or Shakti, depending on the circumstances. Aboriginal cultures have a name for it. The only people who do not have a name for it is us in the rational, logical West. So, what our name for it would be is the body wisdom that animates us, our life force, or deepest intuitive knowing. I’ll tell you how we know about that, one way we know about it is when we just know something is true.

One way you can know about it is, when you just know something is true. You say I know what I have to do after this terrible thing happened to me and I am going to do it. People say you’re a doctor you’re nuts, crazy. But you know its right for you and you do it anyway. That’s one way. Another way is you’re a mother and you’re as big as you are and a car rolls over your toddler and you have to pick it up, you’re going to do it.

Elisa- I am going to frigging do it.

Andy-You can frigging do it even if it’s a 2000 pound car and even if you weigh like 1/20th of it. Women do it all the time and if you ask how did you do it, you know what they say? They say I just knew I could do it. They don’t figure it out, they don’t have an emotion about it they just say I know.

It is the wisdom of the body and what I want to say to you is that’s what is so interesting about it is virtually everybody when you’re aligned with the truth, you get way stronger. When you do something that isn’t true you get way weaker.

And so, I use that and I say we are going to use that and ask that level of wisdom, the one that just knows, to reveal itself. And the way we do it is, I’m going to ask a question and we press on your arm and if it stays strong, for most everybody the answer is yes. And if your arm relaxes, it means the answer is no.

Then I can ask anything. Even in a language you don’t know or concepts you have not heard of and that wisdom knows.

Elisa- Okay so let me ask you a quick question. How does the higher self that second, the subconscious, work together and relate to the body the 3rd form of wisdom. Do they interrelate and how?

Andy- I can answer your question, it’s going to take us in a funny direction. It’s like there are 4 people in their teams and all working on slightly different vibrations, it’s like octaves. and so there’s you that is interacting with soul, with spirit, and with all of life.

The first one is sort of literal, its what is dense, matter. The second one is when you begin to realize that life is much more than dense…it’s telling you something, it’s giving you symbolic messages, or metaphoric message, it is like when you are beginning to turn a noun into a verb. The third one is qualities of being, it’s not narrative at all.

The second on is kind of narrative, it is like if your soul wants you to know something it has to give you a story.

The third one, that body wisdom is just qualities of being…its like qualities of being like joy, peace, equanimity. You could say they are the names of God.

Elisa- I got chills down my body.

Andy- The fourth one is infinite and you asked the question whether you can do this at a distance or not. In this level you know one thing, If I were going to say it this way, I’d say one thing. You are life, everything is life, and we are all in relationship with life.

Elise- Life or Light…. Most of the people (members of the blog) believe in light and know that everything is light. Everything is energy

Andy- I think that who you are when you think that you’re Elisa, is frozen energy. Who you truly are is pure energy, you are energy. As soon as you identify with being Elisa you go from being pure energy, which is the third level, to one, the power of one, and you think you are your body. You are to life what the dense energy you feel in your body is to you. What freedom is, essentially, is choosing to be who you truly are. And the way to choose to be this, I can talk to you about this.

First, I can talk to you about your question about doing it remotely. In order to do it remotely I can talk to you about the 4th level. So, in this level everything is all happening simultaneously.  Everything that has and could ever happen is happening right now. This is why you say, how can something travel faster than the speed of light and the answer is because it’s not travelling, it’s happening everywhere simultaneously. Now there are 2 metaphors for that. Do you want me to do work with you or just keep talking with you?

Elisa: I think we need to have several sessions. This is absolutely fascinating I think you can do work with me at a later time, but I think you have a lot of topics that cover and be on its own. If we make it too long, people don’t have time to listen to super long youtubes.

Andy: Then I will do a session at some other time and you can experience it which will be a joy to do with you.

Elisa-  And I would also like you to explain enneagrams in another session

Andy- We can do that too

Elisa- I have a couple of people to refer to you.  Can you help with abandonment issues?

Andy- We can help with everything

Elisa- Now go for it sorry to interrupt

Andy-There are two metaphors that can help understand that 4th level where everything is infinite, depending on whether you like biology or energy, but I’ll give you both of them ok. The biological metaphor is relationship of cells and body. We have about 3 trillion cells and theoretically if you study all of them, I’ve been told by people who know a lot more about this than I do.

Elisa- No not at all. I don’t care.

Andy- You’d never find 2 that were exactly alike right?

So, each of them is unique, and on the other hand all of them have to be, on one level exactly the same because if you take one cell you can clone a whole universe. You can take one cell and clone the whole body. On that level the template/ the blueprint of everything is happening right now in every cell. Now of course, if you identify with the cell and another one over here, you’d say oh my god we didn’t even know it existed we thought the whole universe was just here, this is 50 million light years away. But it has to be happening here. It just depends if you’re focusing on the unique or blueprint.

So, the other metaphor is the hologram. So if you take a holographic plate and you drop it, its 3 trillion pieces. Everyone of the pieces are different you’ll never find one that’s the same. But each one holds the whole universe.

Elisa- If you drop the necklace every single piece you can see yourself in it.

Andy-Here’s what I want to say. We are mystical pieces of a hologram. Mystical cells in a body called life or you could say mystical pieces of a hologram called life, so each of us is unique and each of us is the whole universe.

Elisa-And that’s why there’s no hell.

Andy-There can’t be hell of course not, everything is God. And when we don’t think something is God there’s one person who’s the problem and its not God. So, our work is to say I am all of it and when we do that we are free. Then someone could say we’re going to crucify you and you’d say to them, you think you’re killing me but you’re killing God. The only difference between me and you is you’re blind you don’t know who you are.

Elisa- That is such a powerful concept that can go in so many directions. For example, if we understand we are collective, all one and the same. If you are going to hurt someone then you are going to hurt the collective so you are going to hurt yourself. We can all live and practice that oneness that knowledge that we are all one whole and part of god the world would be a lot better place.

Andy-If we can all practice it the world would be perfection. we would have a revelation and a realization that all of life is us and so is everything else. Then e ‘ll always be saying, on that level the golden rule would work “‘Do unto others what you wish done onto you” …as long as you know that the uniqueness might be different in their understanding. Anyway, it is all god.

Elisa- Separation and scarcity are all illusions. We need them to have the human experience

Andy-You know why? I think I can tell you why I believe that’s true. What is the one thing that the infinite can’t do?

Elisa- Experience

Andy-Experience, exactly!

Elisa- That’s what Erik uses the brownie analogy. The one, all that is, God source whatever you want to call it, can understand a brownie, can read a recipe whatever, look at the picture. B you don’t know what a brownie is until you mix the ingredients, bake it, frost it and take a bite. You have to have Organic chemistry in the lab with it, you know.

Andy-So in other words, I’ll tell you how I understand it.  The one thing the infinite can’t experience is relationship. If you’re everything no relationship exists, and you can’t experience relationship.

Elisa- Because you have to have a separation to have a relationship, right?

Andy-Right, god is infinite but limited which is a really funny idea.

The only way God could become unlimited is by creating something which was limited. And by creating something that’s limited and you could have all experience, then you could say that Divine becomes infinite and unlimited. And I think that’s what life is doing through us and why we long for each other, life longs for us like we long for life. And our work is to become self-aware divinity.

Elisa- Erik says that we are here to remember because we conceptually understand it. We are love, and here to experience every single facet of love including forgiveness, which means we might have to be betrayed, and loyalty, etc.

Andy-  I’ve been saying for 25 years what is our work. Our work is to re-member. That is our first line, to re-member that is which is dis-membered. So, to re-member just means remembering and whole and healing are all the same word. We are here to remember who we truly are. Now it’s very interesting what Erik says. Think about what we said about God, think about it for a second. There is a word for God knows everything – Omniscient. There is a word for God can do anything- Omnipotent.  You know what there isn’t a word for? All loving.

So we have these 2 words and I think we could say what evolution is about is to get the 3rd of the trinity, which is all lovingness and then you have the true trinity. And, so how do you become all loving? Jesus or Christ says, when 2 or more are gathered there is love, not one, when 2 or more are gathered there is love. So, what is our life about? Learning love and to learn to love means to say I am you. So how could I not love you? That is the heart message, to say I can be with you in everything.

Elisa- I learnt a message of love because of what I went through as a child; compassion and self-nurturing and assertive which is a form of self-love right?

Andy- Compassion is an interesting word you know. Compassion means to be with suffering. To be with what we couldn’t integrate, so we can be free to remember what we truly are, then there is love. And so what is the healing work about, to remember ultimately who we are. Which is everything. Our unique version of everything

Elisa-Everything is love and it is an energy, it’s the energy.

Andy- Right, it is easy to know mentally and hard to know in the heart. Its very hard to live. It is hard to go from..

Why hast thou forsaken me, to like… they are just blind. They don’t understand… we can be with them with acceptance. So as an exemplar this is not an easy journey to get to the top of that mountain. There’s a lot of things going on right, confusion, terror, rage, despair and ultimately, we can go to a place where the heart softens and we say I remember.

Elisa-I think that’s kind of a great place to close. People have a hard time watching youtubes longer than an hour. But I do want to ask you an important question. How did you deal with your colleagues with all of this? So many people don’t understand these things the way you and I do.

Andy-Here’s what I’d say-I meet people where they are. Let’s take something simple. I’m telling you a story about being a deer who had its leg cut off and that’s why I have arthritis and people think that’s crazy right? Well I’d say to therapists, ever heard of play therapy? Well in play therapy what are children doing? They are telling the most elegant, powerful, simple story that reveals what they have to share.

Elisa- I tell skeptics I don’t proselytize. If they solicit information, I share 2 things with them. One is from Dr Thomas Campbell, the writer of the trilogy “My big Toe”.

He said that we are like intestine bacteria and the breath that comes to us comes down from heaven, We don’t understand that seeds have to be sown, crops rotated, transportation to the mill, making the bread. The global economics of wheat, yet it still exists.

Also, I share with them Arthur Chopenhowers beautiful quote.

Truth goes through 3 phases- First its ridiculed and oh boy I get a lot of that. Next is scorned, but eventually its accepted as self-evident. And I think what you and I believe in is going through the 3 phases, just like when everyone thought that the world was flat we had to go through the knowledge, to the absolute truth that the world is round.

Andy-What you say makes total sense to me and what I‘d say is this. You and I have to meet people where they are and what I’d say is this. You and I insofar as all are identified with Andy or Elisa, we can’t have infinite perspective so we just don’t know. We have to be comfortable with the not knowing and saying, I may not know what’s going on here because I may not be able to get to that mountain top yet. So, I will have to take it on some skeptical faith. I love skeptics because why should you believe me? People on your show have known me for an hour, why believe me? Be skeptical and be curious and check it out for yourself.

I have people come to me and say that you are saying sounds crazy to me. I say great, if it’s useful to you, you won’t care and if it isn’t, you won’t care, so I love skeptics.

Elise- I used to be a skeptic when my son Erik died, and I remember my sister Denis, her best friend said, now I’m a Reiki Master, I asked what that was and I thought this girl’s is nuts. and when you would talk to me about mediums or psychics it would conjure up images of a gypsy behind a crystal ball, was I ever wrong. You are right. The journey is so fun and awesome to the ultimate. How can they get in touch with you because you are a fascinating man and we have so much work to do together seriously?

Andy-Thank you I feel the same and I am moved. The best way to do that is to call the institute the phone number is 781-891-7448 and the website is www.lifecenteredtherapy.com or our old website with some articles on it is guidedselfhealing.com

Email us at info@guidedselfhealing.com. We do trainings for people. Long trainings, and others with basics in one day. Healing circles. Enneagram workshops.

We run healing circles because its amazing to do it in a whole collective. Then the collective becomes the body you’re working with. We can all do it together.

Don’t forget that Raylene is hosting an event at my house this weekend. Be sure to join us! She has decided to lower the price to $175 for the weekend, food, wine, other beverages and oracle cards included. Robert Burke will appear as our special guest!

Here’s the information:

Raylene’s 2-day Teaching and Channeling Event

Day 1 01/12/19

Time: 11:00am-4:00pm

Location: Houston, Texas.   Elisa’s house address will be given once payment is received

$175 Price includes lunch on both days, oracle cards and a crystal package

  • Protection
  • How to feel crystal energy
  • How to balance chakras using crystals

Connecting with Spirit

  • How to connect
  • How to feel spirit energy
  • Identifying which spirit is around you

 Semi-Trance Channeling

  • Allowing spirit or higher dimensional beings to move your physical hand

Day 2  01/13/19

Time: 11:00am-4:00pm

Location: Houston, Texas at The Medhus family house (Erik’s childhood home)

How to create your own natural energy

  • Sending and receiving healing energy
  • How to use dowsing rods

The basics of oracle cards

  • How to use oracle cards

Raylene will be offering one-on-one readings with attendees

  • Price is $60.00 for 20 minutes
  • Attendees can pre-book ahead of time

Practice Channeling

Attendees will be given the opportunity to apply what they have learned on one and other if they choose to.

  • Wine and fine spirit’s will be available after event

Here is her website: https://www.angelmedium7.com/live-events

Last but not least, if you missed last week’s radio show, here it is!

Channeling Erik – Live Paranormal

Channeling Erik Radio Show Thursday Nights 7pm est Chat room. Please enter using your Twitter or Facebook log in. Win a Psychic Reading or E-Book. Just click the advertisement below to see if you won! (winners will be redirected to prize page)

Oh, and don’t forget about Erik’s Hour of Enlightenment radio show tomorrow at 4:00 PM PT/6:00 PM CT/7:00 PM ET. Click on the “LISTEN” icon on the right sidebar of the blog or click on this link: http://liveparanormal.com/channeling-erik/. Thursday night, I’ll interview Lorie Givens, author of one of the most powerful books I’ve EVER read: The Do-It-Yourself Guide to Conscious Living: Unraveling Your Mindsets in 21 Days. Then, medium, Michelle Gray, will channel Erik. After the first 20-30 minutes of discussion, Erik will answer questions from listeners. Call-in number: 619-639-4606. You can contact Michelle at thehealingH-ART.com.

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