MLK Jr., Harriet Tubman and Others on Civil Rights

Clearly, this was one of the most pivotal times in American History and it will be discussed by deceased civil rights and anti-slavery activists including Harriet Tubman, Martin Luther King Jr. and more. All of them, including Erik, or course, will be channeled by the wonderful Denise Ramon. Book a session with her at deniseramon.com.

But first, remember that on Tuesday night, join medium, Jennifer Doran and personal development ally/professional wrestler, Jamin Olivencia, as they discuss how we can be self-aware and stop bullshitting ourselves (as Erik would say! Then, Erik will answer questions from callers as channeled by medium, Denise Ramon. You can get in touch with all three via these links, respectively: psychicmediumjenniferdoran.com, jaminolivencia.com and deniseramon.com. You can also register for Jennifer and Jamin’s event at my house starting October 3rd by visiting this link: http://b.link/erik19. DON’T MISS IT!

If you want to talk to Erik on the show, call in to 646-716-9735. You can also access the show through http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hour-of-enlightenment.

We did celebrate Erik’s birthday Saturday. Bittersweet, because I always wonder if he would have been married, working have children and, of course, if he would have been happy on Earth as a human. Here’s a very short video. Sing along!

Enjoy!

Here’s the transcript. Sorry about the weird formatting. We’re working on it!

Elisa:                            Hello Denise How are you doing?

Denise:                        Hi. I’m doing well. Thank you.

Elisa:                            I miss you. It’s been awhile and I miss you Erik.

Denise:                        I miss you. Um, it has been a while.

Erik:                             Hi Momma.

Denise:                        He’s just kissing you and just loving you. He’s like real excited, to be here. He’s just real happy. He’s just happy. Yeah. Well he’s wearing, like he’s dressed kind of silly. He’s wearing pink pants and a yellow top.

Elisa:                            Wow. What’s that all about?

Denise:                        I know, I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t, I’m asking Eric, why are you dressed? So, yeah, he’s just wanting to be, I don’t know.

Erik:                             Because I’m trying to make light of today’s session.

Elisa:                            Oh, that’s a good idea. Kind of nervous about it, but I’m going to tell you guys that, it’s going be about civil rights and these are almost all blog member questions. Okay. All right, so we’re going to make it as neutral as we can.

Erik:                             I’m ready.

Elisa:                            All right and hopefully if need be, Harriet Tubman, might come in, Rosa parks, Martin Luther King, Abraham Lincoln, whoever would be a good voice for this. One blog member asked for example, Why in history does it seemed that blacks have been hated and prejudiced against so much from slavery to Jim Crow to segregation to now mass incarceration. I guess, you know, the preponderance of, you know, the police arrest seems to be, blacks. So why is that? Just because of the color of their skin. It’s so silly.

Erik:                             Number one, a lot of ignorance.

Elisa:                            Yeah.

Erik:                             It’s all fear based.

Elisa:                            What are they afraid of? They’re human beings like.

Erik:                             It goes way back hundreds of years. But people of color all over the world are getting in trouble. You know, when I say getting in trouble, they’re getting treated differently. There’s a lot of prejudice. It’s not just here in the U.S.

Elisa:                            That’s so weird.

Denise:                        It really goes back to when and I’m just a messenger.

Erik:                             It goes back to for here in the states, when people started migrating over here, there was a ton of fear that came in when people, I guess Europeans came over here, there was a ton of fear because when they came over there was already established population.

Elisa:                            Yeah.

Erik:                             And there was a lot of fear on that because there was a lot of,

Denise:                        What’s the word, Eric?

Erik:                             They knew about the land, they knew about the, they knew when to plant. They knew about the wind, the weather, and they knew a lot.

Denise:                        And I guess he’s talking about native Americans.

Elisa:                            Yeah.

Erik:                             And that infuriated, not infuriated, intimidated, the people that were coming over and so they didn’t know what to think.

Denise:                        So when they came over, he’s showing me how they made huddles, like what he showed me of who’s boss, who isn’t, who’s up, you know, everybody’s got to have a boss, you know, leader. Like there’s a captain of a football team, a captain of the cheerleader. There’s always the leader.

Erik:                             So then when this was going on, you know, and then when they, started bringing the African people over here from Africa, you know, that just scared them. And it all came to feeling, that they were superior. So they wanted whatever. And so then they started going in and creating. It’s about control, having slaves and stuff like that.

Elisa:                            Bunch of pussies? Seriously? Just because the color skin.

Erik:                             You get a lot of little white fuckers.

Denise:                        Erik’s words, not mine.

Erik:                             Coming in and start doing this. And then it made them feel like riches when they weren’t even that rich to begin with and then it just came on.

Elisa:                            Well was it the rich leaders, the political, I mean not the, the white, like political leaders or did the white masses, I mean the regular white population, were they just as complicit or were they sort of brainwashed?

Erik:                             It started with the…

Denise:                        He’s telling me it all had to do with both the white masses and the political.

Erik:                             Because you know, they started the political things way back when they first and then it just started, you know, coming over. And it’s about fear, the feeling of lack so that they, you know, we try to control things, you know. That’s where it all started and then I don’t want to say it got out of hand because it never was.

Elisa:                            In hand.

Denise:                        Right.

Erik:                             But then it just grew and grew and then people were afraid to say anything because people back then had the authority back like they do now, but back then, you wouldn’t be able to own anything. You had to pay more taxes or they could take, because [inaudible] of a white person because then you didn’t have any protection like you do now, so to speak.

Elisa:                            Yeah.

Erik:                             So, you know, all of that and the reason why we have the laws that we have and the civil rights that we have is because things went out of hand. So then we had to bring it in control again.

Elisa:                            Yeah. Thank God!

Erik:                             To an extent.

Elisa:                            Well we still got a ways to go.

Erik:                             Just because we have civil rights doesn’t stop the wrongful doing, the prejudice, the hate and all of that.

Elisa:                            Everybody who’s haters, they’ve got to know that that is just cowardice. I mean, that means you have fear and if you have fear, you’re operating as a coward.

Erik:                             Coward is a good word because that is really what it is with everything coming the way it is, you know. We better.

Denise:                        I feel like we need a take another look. Because even though things look really bad right now, things are going to start shifting even more.

Elisa:                            For the better or for the bad?

Erik:                             For the better, it may go worse for some, but better because things are due to our social media, thank goodness. People are starting to see things more and, and things are getting out there and we as a population are not tolerating things like we used to. So you’re going to feel people get a little, people are going to get a lot of uncomfortable because they’re scared that they’re losing control. So they’re going to act out more. But then there’s a larger population. These young kids, and they’re coming in the groves, these kids.

Denise:                        He’s telling me babies are popping out of people left and right and they are coming into this planet to where they’re not tolerant of that. As you know, well of like the teenagers and the 20-year old’s, they’re not tolerant of this kind of hate and a lot of other things. He’s telling me it’s, you know, like in the, I feel like in the next, he’s showing me 10 and 15 and the next 10 to 15 years, there’s going to be a major sweep through here.

Elisa:                            Thank God, I mean it has progressed. I mean over my mother father’s generation, they were awful in that regard. And then in my generation it was a little bit better. I mean, my first boyfriend was black and then now the millennials, wow. They’re just coming in awake and in tolerant of hatred.

Denise:                        Yes.

Elisa:                            It gives me hope, now, I think that they should stop celebrating Columbus Day personally because he was a, what do you call it, a genocidal maniac. He wiped out the Tienos and he didn’t even discovered America. We’re teaching our kids in elementary school that he did, he was a great hero that’s awful. Dump that and put in something like a forgiveness day where we ask for forgiveness to all of those groups of people we have oppressed, the native Americans, the African American, the, African-Americans and the Africans we brought over. And make it an opportunity to also ask for forgiveness or forgive those in our lives who, you know, who are appropriate.

Denise:                        That would be good because when you’re talking about the forgiveness of the native American and the, African Americans, Africans he was also saying the Japanese.

Elisa:                            Yeah and Chinese working on the railroads, I mean there is so many people.

Denise:                        Yeah.

Erik:                             We ought to wipe out all those damn holidays.

Elisa:                            I know.

Denise:                        I don’t care if I get hate comments because I just, I don’t read them anyway, but I think that, I think they ought to wipe out Thanksgiving too and put in forgiveness day on that holiday.

Elisa:                            Yes, exactly. Yeah. Well, Turkey makes me too sleepy, but one thing, but you know, we’ve a lot more civil rights for gays, but of course we have a long way to go on that to and the millennial populations have really taught the older generations a lot in that regard. So I mean love is, love is love. So, and we should love everybody. Don’t people realize we are all one, we’re all a collective if you go hating on one group, you’re hurting yourself because you hurt yourself too by hurting the entire collective. And so silly.

Denise:                        Well, you know, my daughter is Chinese and her first and only boyfriend so far is Nigerian. And she says she likes it that way because it makes it look, she says, I don’t feel like I’m looking at myself.

Elisa:                            Oh,

Denise:                        She like to see a difference. But yet she doesn’t see a difference.

Elisa:                            That’s awesome. I get that. I get that. Right now, somebody asked a question about free town. Just that that’s all Freetown. What was that? That they were going take the slaves and make a colony for them in Africa or something. What was that? I don’t remember. I didn’t look it up.

Denise:                        I don’t know anything about that. I’m pretty not up to breast on history.

Elisa:                            It sounds like an awful idea. If, I remember correctly, it’s like, all right, we’re shipping you all out, you know, you don’t want to be here. Go. That’s terrible.

Denise:                        Yeah.

Erik:                             It’s equivalent to a prison, but no bars or walls.

Elisa:                            Yeah. Oh God. Okay.

Denise:                        And that’s what Eric is telling me. That’s what that was. I’ll have to look that up afterwards.

Elisa:                            Yeah. Yeah. It didn’t work out, I don’t think, obviously,

Denise:                        No.

Erik:                             None of that shit works out because they don’t involve the people that it involves in the planning.

Elisa:                            Okay. Yeah.

Erik:                             You know, sometimes if you would involve the people that you’re talking about in the planning, maybe they could come up with a better idea of what to do because they don’t want to be around these hated people either. They just want to be treated fairly and just like any other human being. And you know, not to worry about, um, being beat up or denied or always watching your back.

Denise:                        He’s showing me how they’re always watching their back.

Erik:                             You know involve them in your discussion, maybe they can think of a better thing.

Denise:                        And he’s kind of laughing.

Erik:                             Maybe they’d say, send us all to Hawaii or some or some nice place.

Elisa:                            Hey, that doesn’t bother me, I’ve never been to Hawaii! So, what does the near future look like for race relations? How can we be better?

Erik:                             Well, you know, how can we be better is to look at ourselves and get out of the fear because it’s all fear based. It’s all fear based. Ask yourself, what are you fearful about? You know?

Denise:                        I even have to say from my own experience with my daughter and her boyfriend, I was kind of like, Oh, you know, I wish it was something, you know, you would have chose someone different but my fear was because of what people would do to her.

Elisa:                            Yeah. It wasn’t how you thought about him. It was like, Oh, you are fearful because society is unevolved still.

Denise:                        How people respond and then I just had to let, yes, yes.

Erik:                             You know, in that fear, there’s a lot of stuff going on. Insecurity, self confidence, just all that stuff and a fear of. It’s a fear that people are going to take something away from you because you are not secure in where you are.

Elisa:                            Yeah. Exactly.

Erik:                             Everybody does it. Everybody.

Denise:                        And he’s, even saying me.

Erik:                             When we feel uncomfortable, you know, we start looking at other people and picking them apart, like, you know, women see a real thin, nicely shaped woman and somebody’s got to say, Oh, well her eyelashes are on wrong, or her eye shadows not on correct. You know, we start picking people apart.

Elisa:                            (inaudible) has no place in our world and people that, oh gosh, this is probably a horribly depressing answer, but when will we stop judging each other and start just loving each other? It’s so much easier to love than to hate you now.

Erik:                             It’s never going to stop because,

Elisa:                            We need the contrast probably.

Denise:                        However, the depths of it and the, the depths of how the hate is gone, he makes me feel like we’re at,

Erik:                             This hate and everything has bad as it is right now, it’s always been there, always that the level of hate that we’re seeing now amongst everything has always been there. But it’s just never was able to surface to the top because we smothered it down.

Denise:                        He’s shown me just like transgenders, they have always been around. We just never heard about it until recent.

Elisa:                            Yeah.

Erik:                             So now everything is, it’s like somebody went around with a Jack Hammer and crack the sidewalk up everywhere and now everything is coming up.

Elisa:                            Oh well that’s good. You can’t make it better if you don’t have it on your plate to deal with it.

Denise:                        That’s what he’s saying.

Erik:                             So now what’s happening is now they’re pulling away the cracked cement and letting everything come out. So now that they can lay a better foundation going forward and what you can do though for the non haters or the not, whatever we want to classify our self as, what we can do is start focusing on the betterment of everything and not how hateful everybody is, because there’s a collective consciousness of both, so it’s like focus on, knowing that.

Elisa:                            Well that’s true. Look at, look at me. I’m saying, Oh my God, there’s so much hate. There’s so much hate. Those thoughts they do create reality. I’ve got to stop, I’ve got to really be aware of my thoughts and pay attention and take responsibility for them.

Denise:                        Yeah.

Erik:                             We can all do that and just know all of this stuff is coming to the surface because it’s getting better. Just do what you can to make it better in your thoughts because when you get into that hate thing,.

Denise:                        I get like that too sometimes. Sometimes it just makes me extremely sad.

Elisa:                            Yeah.

Denise:                        How hateful and mean people are.

Elisa:                            Oh, our leaders, on every political persuasion. I don’t care who you are. There’s so much hate and it seems like so much attention is drawn to is focusing on our differences. Even if we mean to , I don’t know, like pulling the race card, et cetera. You’re just these parties, both sides. You’re just saying, see, this group is different, this group is different, this gender’s different. This, you know, sucks.

Erik:                             They’re not even focused on the correct thing. They’re too busy. It’s no different than women picking apart for another woman because she looks cuter than the rest.

Denise:                        He showed me like that movie pretty woman when, whatever that woman walking in there and all the women we’re kind of picking her apart.

Elisa:                            Oh yeah, yeah.

Erik:                             It’s the same thing. They’re not even focused on the right thing, not 100% on the wrong thing.

Elisa:                            Yeah.

Erik:                             They just got carried away, but it’s all part of the plan. The bigger, the bigger plan.

Denise:                        Yeah.

Elisa:                            We’ve got to stop focusing on labels so that, you know, and our leaders, throughout history do that. And they do that, I think, to divide us. Maybe. I don’t know why they’re always focusing on labeling and categorizing and sorting everybody. Why don’t we just all interbreed until we’re all the same fricking color. I swear to God

Erik:                             That’s going to happen eventually.

Denise:                        But as you said that, I feel like, Erik was telling me and I could hear which was odd because I was like, what?

Erik:                             That’s why Abraham, Lincoln was killed was because of what all that he was doing and not wanting to, you know, because he definitely believed in equality, and saw people as one. He suffered a lot of depression because of the,

Denise:                        Oh, I can’t care, I want to say in equality, but that’s not the,

Elisa:                            The hatred, the [inaudible]

Erik:                             And things not being yes. Abraham was not a man of, wanting things. He just, he wanted things United. He wanted things better, is what he wanted and people couldn’t handle that. He was a man way before his time, but he, contracted that. He contracted that to, to be that way.

Elisa:                            I bet it was an empath. Maybe that’s why he got depressed.

Denise:                        You know, I bet he was. Erik Is making me feel like, you know, he shed some tears while he was in office.

Elisa:                            Yeah.

Denise:                        I’m sure it was about that and you know, and he didn’t even have social media back then,.

Erik:                             He could feel, he could definitely feel, an impasse wouldn’t cut it in office.

Elisa:                            But it seems like, politicians, like I say, do highlight our differences in order to retain power and in many ways it’s like, okay, well what do you think about, what do you call it, where you have quotas and not reverse discrimination? What is it called?

Denise:                        Oh! Yeah. Where you have to have so many of those, so many of that.

Elisa:                            Yeah. I don’t remember.

Denise:                        I forget. I know I’m seeing it too.

Elisa:                            Well, I mean, was that a good thing or a bad thing? It seemed like it does on one hand give opportunities, but you know, I believe in equal opportunity, obviously, but equal to at t. But if you go beyond that, then it seems like you’re just creating more hatred. You know.

Erik:                             You know, it sounded good on paper for the people creating it, but it was just a mask because they were still doing the same thing that they were doing before they did the percentages and stuff.

Denise:                        I wish, I know. I’m like, Erik what do you call that?

Erik:                             That was just a mask, that wasn’t, that was just a (inaudible) people. It’s like a pacifier.

Elisa:                            Oh, I got you. All right. Yeah, if Harriet Tubman can come in. I have somebody who has questions for her. I don’t know if she’s busy or not.

Denise:                        I know I’m like nervous or all like excited.

Elisa:                            Yeah, I would be too.

Denise:                        Erik’s, Erik’s got her.

Elisa:                            Oh, Hey Harriet. How are you doing? Thank you so much for your contribution to (inaudible)

Denise:                        You know, she’s very, well educated, the way she comes in and talking. She just seems, and I say that, because I’m kind of intimidated by her education, but she’s very, she’s a very sweet lady.

Harriet Tubman:         Hello, it’s my pleasure to be here.

Denise:                        Yes, and I can see why Erik is wearing yellow because she has, a yellowish type dress.

Elisa:                            Oh, okay. You want to be twinkies with Harriet.

Denise:                        I know.

Elisa:                            All right. So, this woman asked, or maybe it’s a guy, Harriet, do you remember any stories passed down to her about where her ancestors originated from and how long were they slaves before she was born?

Denise:                        Well, her ancestries were, her ancestors originated from? Because you kind of cut out. She shows me, like some of her ancestry of course originated, in Africa but also, she showing me someplace in Europe also with that.

Elisa:                            Really? Oh cool.

Denise:                        Yeah.

Elisa:                            Where abouts in Europe?

Denise:                        You know, when she’s shown me of I get somewhere around, France.

Elisa:                            Okay. All right, so how long were they slaves before you were born?

Harriet Tubman:         My parents or just my family?

Elisa:                            I guess, well you’re, were your grandparents, slaves, Your great grandparents’ slaves.

Harriet Tubman:         Yes.

Elisa:                            Okay.

Harriet Tubman:         Yes. Yes, yes. Grandparents and parents, yes, definitely were slaves.

Elisa:                            Your parents were slaves too?

Denise:                        She’s showing me parents but I feel like when she’s saying that like they were born into slavery or like on the edge of slavery or something like that, she’s showing me.

Elisa:                            Okay.

Denise:                        Because she’s telling me that she was taught, it was taught, you know, when you, the house how you have to be. And she just remembers thinking she’s telling me like when she was six years old that she was not, she says she is very, what people call stubborn or bullheaded and I’m telling her strong willed and she’ just knew that there had to be different. But yeah, I feel like her parents were born in slavery or.

Elisa:                            Sworn to slaves maybe.

Denise:                        Yeah. That’s where they feel like, yeah.

New Speaker:              All right. Now and during her help, helping slaves escape. Did she ever come across some of the free people of color and did they help them also escape?

Harriet Tubman:         Yes, she had help white people also helped her.

Elisa:                            Oh really?

Denise:                        Yeah.

Elisa:                            Another question said I do know that there were a European people who helped at the risk of great problems.

Harriet Tubman:         Yes, there were, there were some that that helped.

Denise:                        She’s saying, but the way she’s showing me, it’s like they did it not all the time. Like they, you know, it’s cause it’s, it’s smuggling in a way. It’s so they, they had this, they had to be very careful to be, low key about it so it wasn’t so obvious so they wouldn’t see those same people.

Elisa:                            Oh, I see. So they got to rotate.

Harriet Tubman:         Yes. So they had to be very careful.

Elisa:                            Okay. I think it’s probably the same person I just read that Harriet Tubman’s supposedly suffered from a bad head injury inflicted on her by her master overseer or whatever as a child and this caused her to start having powerful visions and dream experiences throughout her life. The question is, did she know that she was connected with spirit? Does spirit guide her and give her the vision of the underground railroad? Perhaps because of that head injury.

Harriet Tubman:         The person that gave her a blow to the head didn’t give her anything like that, those were abilities that she had on our own.

Denise:                        She’s also referring to back.

Harriet Tubman:         When I was six years old, I knew that there was different, well, I connected to spirit.

Denise:                        I just have chills on me.

New Speaker:              Absolutely. Who do you think was guiding her? I always knew there was a safety about her.

Elisa:                            Oh Wow. So who, who gave you the head injury?

Denise:                        She’s showing me there was, I feel like there was a few men standing around, but one in particular is the one that, that hit her or pushed or knocked her on something.

Elisa:                            Why?

Denise:                        Because of her color.

Elisa:                            What was he having? I mean, was it, was skin a factor because she’s strong-willed? Was she defiant to this person or?

Harriet Tubman:         We were never defiance, we were all raised early on, never be defiant. Never give a reason for the white man to do anything to you. But I was not taught hate either and I did not hate white people either. I hated what the people were doing to her brothers and sisters.

Elisa:                            Yeah. That’s remarkable. I think I would have felt hate.

Denise:                        She really makes it to her parents that they were raised not to and then yes, I can, I would hate, I mean I don’t know.

Harriet Tubman:         Hate is something that poisons your soul.

Elisa:                            I know, I know. Wouldn’t it be forgiveness? I have a feeling that I wouldn’t know how to avoid feeling hate.

Harriet Tubman:         Then you’re no better than them.

Elisa:                            I know it would be wrong, I agree but I don’t know unless I was in that situation. So, here’s another question for you, Ms. Tubman. How did you know who to trust because there was so much danger about?

Harriet Tubman:         You didn’t really, you just had to go on because you didn’t know if somebody who was helping you of same color would turn on you if they got caught.

Elisa:                            Oh yeah!

Harriet Tubman:         And that would be understandable. I started out doing this a little bit at a time. So it wasn’t all of a sudden she just making these big moves, so you go with.

Denise:                        She makes me feel like you go with your intuition.

Harriet Tubman:         Your gut feeling.

Elisa:                            Ah, I see.

Harriet Tubman:         Then after you start talking, you can feel the love or you can feel the hate even when they’re speaking words (inaudible) you can tell. You can sense it.

Elisa:                            Yeah, she was intuitive of course. Did you ever feel like giving up?

Harriet Tubman:         Of course!

Elisa:                            But you didn’t.

Harriet Tubman:         Of course. What would have been the alternative?

Elisa:                            Name one thing that made you transiently think, oh, I’m done.

Denise:                        Okay, when you say that she was showing me one time, she saw someone’s baby being taken away and being beat for punishment.

Harriet Tubman:         But I knew that I had to keep going because everybody has a right to be free.

Elisa:                            Yeah.

Denise:                        Thank God she had the courage and the bravery to do something like that.

Elisa:                            It’s so crazy. How could people think that not everybody should be free? It’s so foreign to me, all right now, I would love to know this is from somebody. If she could give us any advice on how to end child slavery and what can we do as a, collective to end this?

Harriet Tubman:         You have to hit them in their pocket.

Denise:                        She’s talking about their wallet.

Harriet Tubman:         You live in a day at time where you have the Internet to where you can research and stuff. Research the products that you use, see what they do, how they make it, where they have it made.

Elisa:                            Oh yeah!

New Speaker:              Stuff and used in their products if you stop using their products, because it’s a corporation that makes hundreds of products. So, if everybody would stop using their products, they would have to do something different.

Elisa:                            Yeah. Good. Oh, awful. What about the sex slave, the child sex slave deal?

Harriet Tubman:         That’s a bigger, that’s huge.

Elisa:                            Oh gosh!

Harriet Tubman:         And, and the thing of it is, is that, if you think your child can’t be involved in it, you’re wrong.

Elisa:                            Yeah.

Harriet Tubman:         It just doesn’t matter. That’s huge.

Denise:                        And, and she’s the way she’s saying, huge it’s like, it’s at the top. There’s people coursed up at the top, but some of that stuff is coming out now though. It’s like starting to unravel, isn’t it? And she’s saying it just chipped away a little layer. And when I’m talking to her about like those actresses that were, and that Nexium or whatever, it was a say Nexium that in, and that, that lady that played on smalls and then that other guy, they were arrested for, sex trafficking here in the States. And she says, you know, it’s people like them who are doing it, but you would never think they look real sweet and innocent. And she says those are the ones, it’s not the scumbags that we see.

Elisa:                            Oh, that’s terrible. All right, so, Martin Luther King Jr, he can come in too. Maybe, because I’ve got some people that want to ask him questions. If you can get him. Erik?

Denise:                        Erik has him here.

Elisa:                            Oh, awesome. Hello, Martin Luther King Jr, MLK. Lots of streets named after you, I must say right up there was main street.

Denise:                        Yeah.

MLK:                            Yes ma’am. Yes ma’am.

Denise:                        He’s in a suit.

Elisa:                            Oh, of course.

Denise:                        Yeah, it looks like a blackish suit with a white shirt on.

MLK:                            Yes ma’am. Yes ma’am.

Denise:                        I feel like I’m around a bunch of celebrities.

Elisa:                            Oh, you are? We both are. Okay, so somebody wants to ask if you were a Republican or Democrat. I don’t think that matters. I don’t know.

MLK:                            The party that I was affiliated with back then is not the party that I would be affiliated with today. It’s not the same.

Elisa:                            Okay, neither of them are the same.

MLK:                            Correct. Correct. Correct.

Elisa:                            You were probably a JFK Democrat and that’s more like current day Republicans or, I don’t know.

Denise:                        He’s telling me that he was leaning more towards the Democrat, but he was for equal rights.

Elisa:                            Yeah. Good. Alright. Who would you march for today? Love that question.

Denise:                        Okay. Yeah. Who would you march for?

MLK:                            Marianne Williamson.

Elisa:                            Oh Wow! Okay. Not who would vote for, but, okay. That’s good. Would you march for the equality for what group, now? But I do like her she’s good.

MLK:                            Because there’s the bringing out the spiritual partners.

Elisa:                            Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Denise:                        That’s what we need in touch with that. But who would he march for, for today?

MLK:                            I would definitely would march in my own parade!

Elisa:                            Good!

MLK:                            I’m for anything about equal rights.

Elisa:                            So anybody.

MLK:                            Yeah, anything.

Denise:                        I’m asking would you do the pride parades?

MLK:                            Definitely.

Elisa:                            Oh, absolutely.

MLK:                            I would march in anything for equal rights. Mine was never about color, mine was about rights.

Elisa:                            Yeah. Good. Good. All right. What would be your dream today?

MLK:                            The same as it was back then.

Elisa:                            Equality for all. Somebody wants to ask, what did you think about Johnson’s great society plan?

Denise:                        What is that?

Elisa:                            I don’t know.

Denise:                        I don’t know either not that I need to know.

Elisa:                            I can’t remember, let me look it up. All right, well, let’s go to the next one, what advice do you or Ms. Tubman have for the black community today?

MLK:                            Keep marching for your rights.

Elisa:                            Fighting is more hate oriented.

MLK:                            Keep marching for your rights. This is how you do it for anything that you’re wanting to bring awareness to. The abuse that is happening amongst all African American people are all people of color is the same thing that’s been going on for decades, it’s nothing new. It’s just out there in the paper. It’s so important that people of color keep marching towards their rights, that they have a right to have, but to do it in a place of, come from your heart, do it in a place of love. It’s challenging.

Elisa:                            Because there’s so much hate you’re fighting against, fighting against marching against.

MLK:                            But it makes a difference.

Denise:                        He kind of laughs.

MLK:                            Because, look, I have streets named after me.

Elisa:                            Hmm.

Denise:                        You know, he’s telling me he’s got some schools named after him and so it wasn’t all for nothing.

Elisa:                            Oh no, of course not. All right, so the great society now, I remember a domestic program in the administration of President LBJ that Institute of federally sponsored Social Welfare Programs.

MLK:                            It’s come a long way because when it first happened, again, it was, you know.

Denise:                        He makes me feel like it was to kind of like, let’s put a band aid on things, you know.

MLK:                            That needs some overhauling. It needs, some more stuff than it needs to be reorganized again, but not to where you put more band aids on things, you’ve got to reorganize things for solution.

Elisa:                            Like what do you see the biggest change should be?

MLK:                            How people qualify for things. How people.

Elisa:                            Oh, qualify for assistance?

MLK:                            Anything that needs to be reorganized because there’s a lot of waste, a lot of money being wasted because nobody’s really investigating it. There’s a lot of fraud is going on in there.

Elisa:                            Yeah.

MLK:                            And it’s not just people of color.

Elisa:                            No. Oh Heck No. Absolutely not. This one person seems to think that, you know, the family structure of the blacks, used to be for the most part, more cohesive. And then the great society comes in and, all of a sudden, the not in all families of course, most of them are not like this, but the welfare check becomes their husband and their, you know, caregivers. So the father’s sort of disappears from so many of these African American families. Not all of them, like I say, but you know.

MLK:                            Correct What they forgot to put in there was education.

Elisa:                            Yeah, I think so.

MLK:                            They forgot to put an education in there. There should have been education put in that.

Elisa:                            Right. Welfare training and skills. Give them leg up, not a handout. Don’t throw money at it. Just to whatever.

Denise:                        Yeah.

MLK:                            We have been so repressed that we didn’t know what else to do, so we didn’t know how to move ahead.

Denise:                        He’s wanting to make careful, but it doesn’t go for everyone.

MLK:                            We’re just talking about, people know what I’m talking about. So, there wasn’t anything. It’s like kind of like you dump out a whole five gallon bucket of what we have now.

Denise:                        He’s showing me Legos and you’re saying build me a house, but you don’t have any instructions.

Elisa:                            Oh, yeah.

MLK:                            And so you give these people this stuff and you don’t give them any instructions. You give them a little bit of money and tell them to buy food, but you don’t tell them how to buy food to support them, so that it can last. They don’t think about things and the education is the biggest deficit of what they should (inaudible)

Elisa:                            I agree.

MLK:                            They should have gave them education because almost everybody wants to have an education of some sort.

Elisa:                            Everybody wants to be (inaudible)

MLK:                            Everybody wants to go to school or to make better themselves, that everybody, African American men want to go to work and have a good job and not be dependent on drugs and alcohol.

Elisa:                            Yeah of course.

MLK:                            Education is the biggest thing.

Elisa:                            The poor white class doesn’t want that either.

MLK:                            Nobody wants that but we didn’t put that in there. We didn’t because we didn’t think.

Elisa:                            Well, maybe we could do it now. I mean, we need some urban renewal. We need, corporations to help (inaudible).

MLK:                            They didn’t want us to be educated though.

Elisa:                            They do now though, don’t they?

MLK:                            They’re still ab it repressed, but that’s almost with everything. What do you think the student loan debt is all about?

Elisa:                            Oh, Wow!

MLK:                            That right there speaks for itself.

New Speaker:              Yes.

Denise:                        Yeah.

Elisa:                            Not a good deal because yeah, they take underwater basket weaving. These young kids to pay off all these loans. How am I going to do that? Anyway, just kidding. All right, so here’s another one on somebody. What do you think about the southern Democrats being the party of the KKK against civil rights, but yet blacks vote Democrat. Now are this, cause the Democrat party has probably changed, right? So they’re no longer that party of KKK.

MLK:                            They’re on both, but yes, they are.

Denise:                        He said yes and that when he’s saying that, it just makes me sick to my stomach.

Elisa:                            What does?

Denise:                        That they are affiliated with that kind of stuff. It just makes me sick to my stomach.

Elisa:                            I don’t think they still are.

Denise:                        He said, yes.

Elisa:                            Oh God, really?

MLK:                            It’s intertwined.

Denise:                        He says yes.

Elisa:                            Oh, that’s disgusting. All right. So he also, oh, this is not the same person. Would you mind asking MLK what he thinks about society tearing down statues of big, like super sensitive about like taking down all these confederate statues and stuff, I guess. Does he have any advice for balance?

Elisa:                            I think keep them up there so he could learn. You know, how.

Denise:                        That’s what he said.

MLK:                            What did tearing down the statue do, did it tear down? Did it, does it take that situation away? Does it resolve the issue? Did it change how we view people of color that it raise the, the dollar that women make to, where they’re making dollar for dollar as inn what men make? Did it change the salaries on people of color? Did it change anything? It hasn’t changed anything, all it did, was bring out more, more hate and more, segregation type. It didn’t do anything.

Denise:                        And he agrees we should leave them up there.

Elisa:                            If you don’t learn from history, quote unquote, you’re doomed to repeat it. So these are learning tools.

MLK:                            You ought to just put them,

Denise:                        He’s show me like moving them to a place where they’re all lined up and say, these are the people that did all of this.

MLK:                            Don’t tear him down or anything like that instead do something about that. You are doing stuff about it, that’s why there’s so much movement going forward and why, people don’t stop it, but tearing down the statute does nothing.

Elisa:                            Yeah, of course not. It creates a divide. A hate divide.

MLK:                            It is.

Elisa:                            It’s another thing to fight over for God’s sake.

Denise:                        Yeah.

Elisa:                            Basically that’s it, Oh, God. Stop bringing up things that we need to fight over people. Now, one more question, just for me. What about animals having equal rights? Shouldn’t they? They are not inferior to us just because we anthropomorphize everything.

MLK:                            Yes, animals should have equal rights.

Elisa:                            Every living creature

Denise:                        They should have equal rights.

Elisa:                            Okay. That’s just a short one. Any other advice before we close from either of you or Erik? You know, Martin Luther King, Erik or Miss Tubman.

MLK:                            Keep practicing.

Denise:                        And I guess the reason why he says practicing so that we can continuously do it, because the more you practice, the more you’re likely to do it on a continuous basis.

MLK:                            Treat everyone was love regardless of where they’re at.

Elisa:                            Yeah.

MLK:                            That is where I came from even though I was so, swimming upstream.

Denise:                        But he knew he was getting somewhere because if the people weren’t rebelling the way they were then that meant he wasn’t moving forward. But because they were rebelling, he knew he was moving forward.

MLK:                            So just remember that as people rebel that they, or coming across as you’re moving for your civil rights.

Elisa:                            They’re protesting because (inaudible)

MLK:                            You’re moving forward and don’t get caught up and having to prove you’re right. You already know you’re right. That’s why you’re, you’re in this movement.

Denise:                        He goes and just know that it’s they and this as well, and I didn’t even think about this way.

MLK:                            Just know the more you move forward and they start their stuff, they’re rebelling or their hate or whatever they’re saying, just know you’re moving forward and it’s, it’s getting moved.

Elisa:                            Shaking things up. Makes People squeal.

MLK:                            Yes.

Harriet Tubman:         Don’t be afraid to speak your truth.

Elisa:                            Yeah. That’s so wise. Big words. All right, well thank you so much. Oh, go ahead.

Denise:                        Erik’s dittoing Harriet. (inaudible) our truth.

Erik:                             None of us speak our truth.

Denise:                        I shouldn’t say he’s not saying none of us. It’s just that we need to practice speaking our truth.

Elisa:                            That means be opening your heart. That means being vulnerable. Vulnerability is not a weakness it’s a strength, people and hatred is a weakness. Hatred is cowardice. It’s fear. It’s like, you know,

Erik:                             It really shows you how shaky your foundation is when you come out with your hatefulness and stuff that really shows how shaky your own foundation is with yourself. So just know that when you’re spewing out hate or you know, of any kind, um, you’re just showing how.

Elisa:                            I know and all these people would come hating us. Hate me. II can only speak for myself, it’s like they’re cowards. You come from the place of hate. That’s fear and fear is cowardice. Anyway, well, thank you so much. I love you Erik. Thank you much Harriet, Ms. Tubman and Martin Luther King Jr and Denise Ramon. Of course, you can get in touch with her, deniseramon.com. I’ll put that here, but Denise, do you have anything else to say?

Denise:                        They’re both saying thank you very much it was an honour to be here.

Erik:                             I love you Mama.

Elisa:                            Oh, I love you. He used to call me Mama. The honor is ours. Okay. For sure. All right, so, all right, thank you. And Denise, I want to tell you, asked you one thing after we close. Bye,.

Denise:                        Bye everybody.

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