Of course you know that Hugh would have more to say than we could fit in a one hour session, and you all suggested so many insightful questions that I couldn’t pass up, so enjoy Part Two of his interview.

Here’s the transcript, courtesy of the wonderful, Amara B. Thanks, Amara!

Emma: Hello!

Elisa: Hello, Emma. How’s it going?

Emma: I’m okay. How are you?

Elisa: Good. How’s my boy?

Erik: I’m always great, mama. How are you?

Elisa: I know. I’m doing –

Erik: Being a new grandma!

Elisa: I know! You guys – okay, here’s the lowdown. My little girl, my eldest, just had her first baby, Harper Lee Braly. She’s adorable! I posted on social media, if you want to check it out. And I posted it yesterday a little video from right after birth. But I am taking care of her two dogs. And I cannot promise you that five dogs won’t go ape-shit crazy every once in a while. I’m hoping not. I’m giving them the evil eye! But anyway we’ll try and make this the best we can. So can we start out with the second part of Hugh Hefner?

Erik: Sure!

Elisa: All right.

Erik: Just let me go get him, mom.

Elisa: Go get him!

Emma: He’ll get him at the Green Room.

Elisa: In the Green Room, there we go. In his robe and ascot.

Hugh: Hello again!

Elisa: Oh, hello again! So glad you can make it twice in a row. Appreciate it. Because, you know, you’ve got a lot to say, so we had to divide it into a couple of sessions. So let’s start out with me asking you the next question. Could you please tell us what plans were made for the Playboy Mansion before your passing?

Hugh: Well, for me, I really wanted it to be passed on to my children. And then, you know, really it didn’t matter what they did with it. I was kind of hoping silently, I never really expressed it, but I was hoping that they would turn it into a museum.

Elisa: I think that would be nice!

Hugh: But it doesn’t look like that will be happening. (laughs)

Elisa: Why? What’s going on? What are they doing with it?

Hugh: It’s being sold or it’s sold.

Elisa: Ohh, that’s too bad. Well, maybe that person will make it into a museum, you never know!

Emma: Oh, no. He (Hefner) says it’s – yeah, they’re – it’s sold or it’s being sold. I’m not sure if it already is sold. I just keep seeing the word “sold” in front of me.

Elisa: Okay.

Emma: And he’s saying, it was necessary to – something about taxes that still needed to be paid.

Elisa: Oh! Oh, goddam the government. Boy! They tax you when you’re alive, they tax you when you’re dead. That’s terrible! Well, how many children – who is in your will? I mean, how many people? You don’t have to list them, but – all your children, couple of your wives?

Hugh: Well, my four children. My children were my everything. When it comes to unconditional love, when it comes to loving a being just for their being, then the love for a child is just that.

Elisa: Oh, yeah.

Hugh: You know, there are no expectations, there’s no demands. You just love ‘em! And you love them so much, that sometimes your heart breaks. And just thinking about them not doing well or getting hurt, it can destroy you.

Elisa: Tell me about it! Tell me about it. I understand, yeah.

Hugh: So for me, my children – yeah, my children. And some have gone into the business and some haven’t. Some are staying completely out of sight. And that is okay. I just wanted them to be happy. I want them to follow their dreams and to do what they believe is right for them. And I’ve always kind of – you know, I grew up in a home, my parents were Methodists and everything was very strict. There was no – I might have mentioned this in the previous part – but, you know, there was no hugging, there was no communicating. And so when I had children, m-mm, there was going to be open communication. There was going to be clarity, there was going to be love, there was going to be the hugging. But I want people to understand … You know, a lot of people think, “Well, there’s all these women walking around! And there’s all of this going on!” You know, how do you … But to be honest, my children were all protected from that.

Elisa: Oh, good.

Hugh: They never saw the parties. They were always kept separate from, you know, the kind of sexual exploration that was going on. So my kids really had a normal upbringing. So I just wanted to make that clear.

Elisa: Oh, yeah. Well, that’s another question. Beside that, what is the biggest misconception people have about you that you’d like to clear up?

Hugh: That’s a good question! Well, the biggest misconception is, that it was all about getting laid.

Elisa: Okay.

Hugh: It was not. For me, it was about understanding human emotions. It was about understanding the psyche behind it and how it influenced people. How it created actions and thought patterns and habits that sometimes could be negative for us, but sometimes could be positive for us. It was all about psychology, it was all about the emotional understanding of the human being. And, yes, did I have several women! And there were a lot of things going on, but that was exploration. That was for me, observation. Sometimes – and I’m going to be completely blunt in this, I’m going to be open in this. So if I’m shocking people, I do apologize. But sometimes I would hire porn stars to come to my home and to make love and to have sex in different ways with different utensils –

Elisa: (laughs)

Hugh: Yeah, with the girls that I was with. With my girlfriends, while I would be watching and observing them. And it did happen that some of the girls kind of had to stop, because it was a little too painful. There was extreme, you know, research going on. And people are not ­– they’re just going to say, “You’re just a dirty pervert!” But for me, it was about observation.

Elisa: Sure!

Hugh: About what women liked, what men liked. What worked, what didn’t work. You know, there was this whole – yeah, it was – I was almost like, I saw myself mostly as a researcher. Somebody who was observing these primitives. (laughs)

Elisa: Yeah!

Hugh: What do they do? Why do they do it? You know, so there was a lot more behind it than just getting laid. And that’s the one thing that I think I just wanted to clear up.

Elisa: Okay. Now you’ve been an icon for so many men for a long time. Who are your icons? Or maybe you just have one? Maybe just name one. If any!

Hugh: (after a pause) My biggest icon, I would say Nietzsche.

Elisa: Okay! Why?

Hugh: Because he basically turned psychology upside down.

Elisa: True.

Hugh: And he wasn’t afraid to say, “You know what? I think this is it and I don’t care what anyone else says!” So he was not afraid to stand up for what he believed to be true in his studies, in what he observed. And so I think, if you look at his time when he was trying to get his work out, there was so much criticism.

Elisa: Yeah.

Hugh: There was so much, “No, no, no, no! That’s totally bullocks! No, no!” But he fought through and he said, “No! This is it. And I’m going to publish it. And I don’t care what anybody thinks!”

Elisa: Good!

Hugh: And you look at it now, it is in every college. It is in every university. People know his work and truly see in it … they understand it, they see it, they get it. And so I like to believe that for me, in some way or form, I was very similar. You know, I opened up the boundaries to sexual acceptance and to liberation of taboos. And in liberation of the sexual lust.

Elisa: Okay.

Hugh: And so, you know, looking at it now, if you look at people – I mean, sex is an everyday thing! It is in every show, it is on all TVs, it is everywhere. And it is considered to be normal! But when I was young –

Elisa: It wasn’t.

Hugh: – that was not normal!

Elisa: That’s true. All right, so who do you think is the sexiest woman you’ve met?

Emma: Say what? You froze up.

Elisa: Oh! I’m going to have to go a little faster, we’re going to go a little faster. Who was the sexiest woman you’ve met, in the last 55 years?

Hugh: I’m not going to answer that, because they were all very sexy in their own way.

Elisa: Okay. Now in the 80s, you had a string of problems; legal, political, and financial. Did you ever think of quitting, retiring, leading a normal life?

Hugh: Yes. The government was trying to shut me, political movements and women movements were trying to shut me down. There is a lot of people trying to shut me down over the years. But in the 80s, it got really bad. To the point where we started losing money. We stopped making money. And then I had my stroke.

Elisa: Oh! I didn’t know that!

Hugh: And I was confronted with my own mortality.

Elisa: Yeah.

Hugh: And so I had a moment where I said, “Okay. I’m gonna change things. I’m gonna settle down.” And I got married! You know, I settled down. (laughing) It didn’t last as long as a marriage should last. Yeah, but that was a time, the whole 80s all the way to the beginning of the 90s, where I thought that I needed to change. But I felt really fast that this changed person wasn’t me. I didn’t feel right. It didn’t fit with me.

Elisa: Okay.

Hugh: And so I started to kind of, became – you know, I started to go back to who I really was.

Elisa: Good. How are Playmates different today than they were 55 years ago?

Hugh: Well, the exposure for one. People have gotten so used to seeing everything, that, you know, the pictures are also a lot more graphic now. There was a lot more “hiding” in the old days! But I think the women have gotten to a point where they’re proud to be a Playmate.

Elisa: Yeah.

Hugh: They’ve gotten to a point where, “Hey! Look at me!” And they’re proud of their bodies. While believe it or not when I first started, I actually had to ask secretaries and people that I used to work with, “Hey, would you mind maybe going on a photoshoot?” You know, we had to convince them that it wasn’t gonna affect their work and that it wasn’t going to have a negative effect on their family. So there was a lot of convincing that, you know, this is going to be classy and it’s going to be like this. Now women would throw themselves, you know, over the later years, women would just throw themselves and say, “Please! I wanna be in Playboy, please!”

Elisa: Okay, yeah.

Hugh: So the attitude towards being naked in a magazine has completely changed. And also, the pictures and the amount of nudity has completely changed.

Elisa: Okay. What’s the biggest mistake men make in relationship? And what do most men fail to understand about women – in your opinion?

Hugh: These are all great questions! I like these questions! What we need to understand – men or women – is that, a relationship is based on mutual respect and on each other’s wishes. And that we all have sexual desires, we all have fantasies, that we would like to explore. And even if, let’s say, you have a fantasy and your partner does not like that fantasy, you know, maybe you can compromise and find something in between. It’s all about making compromises in relationships, but it’s also about respecting and accepting each other. Don’t try to change your girlfriend, don’t try to change your wife and the other way around too.

Elisa: No.

Hugh: A lot of times now, when we go into a relationship, we change ourselves, we adjust ourselves. So we believe then that the other person will stay with us, they won’t leave us. And so you can only hold that on for so long.

Elisa: I know, yeah.

Hugh: You can only pretend to be somebody that you’re not for so long. And then during the marriage, the marriage will fail because they can no longer pretend to be someone that they’re not. So my best advice is: open communication about everything, everything! Unconditional love and respect towards the other person. And towards yourself. To never do anything that you do not feel comfortable with, whether or not the person that asks you to do it loves you to death. If you don’t feel comfortable for it, then they need to respect each other. And truly, always stay true to yourself. Never change for anyone, in any relationship. If it doesn’t work out, it’s not a failure. It was just a great experience and then you’re off to a new experience.

Elisa: That’s right.

Hugh: So that’s how you have to see it.

Elisa: There’s no failure. There’s no right or wrong. Everything is an experience with a valuable lesson. All right, so what is your idea of perfect happiness?

Hugh: (pause) Being able to experience what you always want to experience. Just being able to stay true to yourself and achieve the things that you’ve always wanted to achieve. And reaping the joy of that, finding that balance and that peace in it.

Elisa: Okay. What is your biggest fear? Or what was your biggest fear, rather?

Hugh: Yeah, right now, I don’t have any more fears.

Elisa: Of course not.

Hugh: What was my biggest fear? (pause) That’s a hard one! I didn’t have a lot of fears, to be honest. Maybe the biggest fear, well, my biggest fear was not to be a good dad.

Elisa: Oh! Yeah, okay. And it seemed like you were.

Hugh: Not being a good parent.

Elisa: It seemed like you were. Nobody’s perfect, but it sounded like you were.

Hugh: Yeah, you know, nobody is perfect. And we make mistakes and that’s how we grow as a parent. But I do believe that, you know, I tried my very best to be the best parent I could be.

Elisa: And they probably knew that they were very loved. And that’s important.

Hugh: That’s important.

Elisa: All right. Name your biggest strength and your biggest weakness.

Hugh: (pause) My biggest weakness and my biggest strength was curiosity.

Elisa: Ohh! Interesting! So they were both, okay. In what way could that become a weakness? I mean, curiosity, I see that as a strength. But is it like the curiosity-killed-the-cat thing? That you would go past certain boundaries that you shouldn’t have crossed?

Hugh: Yes. Sometimes I would take things a little too far and I would hurt people, without it being my intention. Sometimes I would –

Elisa: Are you talking about sexually?

Hugh: I’m talking about friendships.

Elisa: Oh.

Hugh: I’m talking about partnerships. You know, I have to admit, I disappointed certain people. And sometimes I took it too far. And sometimes my ego would kick in and I would take it too far. And I truly admit that. But, you know, it’s from those mistakes that you learn and that you grow. And, you know, sometimes my curiosity in … certain politicians.

Emma: It’s almost like there were politicians or it had something to do with politics, that he would discover things that he wished he hadn’t discovered. Because then he felt unsafe, because he knew this and he knew that other people knew that he knew this. And so it felt like when it came to politics, also he sometimes stuck his nose in things he shouldn’t have stuck ‘em into.

Hugh: But overall, it worked out fine. Because I was also not a person who would lean into fear. I would go like, “Oh, crap! Shouldn’t have done that!” And I would have a fear moment for maybe a day or two. And then I would be like, “I’ll screw it! You know, whatever happens, happens.” That was just kind of my attitude. So I didn’t – I never stayed stuck in my fear.

Elisa: Okay, good.

Hugh: That was my greatest, you know, one of my greatest strength. And, yeah, being curious also leads you to great discoveries.

Elisa: Sure! Okay, so did you know about JFK or Marilyn Monroe? Any of those secrets? Is that what you’re talking about? One thing that you could be talking about that created fear for your life?

Hugh: (nodding)

Elisa: Okay. Because we know that was all about the CIA, already know.

Hugh: Yeah.

Elisa: Okay. All right, so –

Hugh: And other things that haven’t been discovered yet!

Elisa: Ooh! What quality do you like the most in men? And then, the same with women? What’s your favorite quality in men and what is your favorite quality in women?

Hugh: (pause) When it comes to women, I love the fact that they’re unpredictable.

Elisa: Okay.

Hugh: Women range in every direction and they are all very, very unique. So every woman for me was a new discovery, a new insight in the human psyche. Because women really analyze so much in their life. They are constant thinkers. They are constantly analyzing it, categorizing it, cataloguing it, you know, they have a whole library in there. And so for me, figuring out what their triggers are and trying to figure out the psyche. What led her to me? What led her to this? That was really interesting for me.

Elisa: Uh-oh, you froze! Wait! Okay, say that, start that over again?

Hugh: Men are really – when it comes to men, men are easily satisfied.

Elisa: Yeah. Women are not!

Hugh: Women are not. Women always want to reach for more. Men are easily satisfied. And in some way or form, that is kind of a charming quality. Because they find peace and balance a lot quicker than women do. So I felt that that … not having the desire to constantly evolve and grow … although they do, but on a lot slower pace than women do. Don’t take this the wrong way, guys! This is just an observation! But they are a lot more satisfied in life, because they just live more in the moment. And they just feel – they’re very easily satisfied. You know, you give ‘em a good drink, give ‘em a good party, give ‘em some nice women – they’re happy, they’re satisfied! Women will always want more.

Elisa: Yeah.

Hugh: And because of that lust for more, because of that need of more, they make themselves unhappy in some way or form. They’re never satisfied. There’s always something missing in their life. And so it’s a really cool contrast to see that in men and women.

Elisa: I wonder why teleologically women are that way? Does it have anything to do with childrearing?

Hugh: Well, I think it has to do with – female energy is all about expansion, about growing, nurturing, feeding.

Elisa: Okay.

Hugh: And male energy is about maintaining stability.

Elisa: Oh! That makes sense. All right, so real quick, ‘cos we’re running out of time. I say that a lot, people, but really, seriously. Sorry! It’s just the way it is.

Erik: There is no time, mom! There is no time.

Elisa: Oh, yeah, yeah. All right. Did you have more friends that were male or more friends that were female?

Hugh: It was about equal.

Elisa: Okay. All right, now I’m gonna go through my usual spiritual type questions pretty quickly here. What was your spiritual mission here on earth, as Hugh Hefner?

Hugh: Well, for me it was all about understanding human emotions, understanding human behavior.

Elisa: Oh, yeah.

Hugh: And it was about staying true to myself and really following my heart. You know, following my own path and staying true to that. Not allowing anyone to knock me off of my road, of my path of liberation. It was not just a liberation for everyone, but it was my liberation from my upbringing. I did not wanna become like my parents! That was a nightmare in my eyes, becoming like them. I loved them.

Elisa: Sure!

Hugh: But living the relationship that they did – no way in hell! So it was my own liberation from that as well. And I think I was here for, I mean, for people – I mean, it’s all about the sexual liberation. It was all about starting that sexual revolution. Making it okay, making sex okay, making it a natural thing, a natural desire. And, you know, that it is part of our human existence. That was what I was here to teach, or to kind of unlock in humanity.

Elisa: My next question was, what you were here to learn or teach? You kind of answered those. And my question after that was: Did you accomplish those things? And it seems like you did. Did you?

Hugh: Oh, yes, yes.

Elisa: Awesome.

Hugh: I had a very successful life.

Elisa: You did. Do you have any regrets?

Hugh: I don’t, actually, no.

Elisa: Well, that’s awesome. What was your main insight after your transition?

Hugh: That it was just as much fun up here than it is down there!

Elisa: Okay! Good! Can you share another life that most influenced your one as Hugh Hefner?

Emma: (pause) Okay. What are – I don’t know what they’re called. Okay, so he’s showing me the “old days”. I would probably say like the days of Mozart and all of that.

Elisa: Okay.

Emma: He used to be – he was a man. I don’t know the English name for it. But they used to like castrate them, so they would continue to sing in a high voice.

Elisa: Oh, eunuchs? Oh, yeah. Eunuchs?

Emma: I guess. I don’t know the English word for it. You know, they would castrate them and then they –

Elisa: Say it in your language.

Emma: Oh! … um … yeah, I don’t know either! (laughs)

Elisa: Oh, no! You got caught now!

Emma: I don’t know! I’m sorry, people! I don’t know the name, but he’s just showing me how they’re like snipping him.

Elisa: Okay.

Emma: And he’s singing. So I remember a long time ago, seeing a movie about something and I think it was called Farinelli or something. It was a long time ago, a movie, and it was about a person like that. And he would sing, he had a beautiful voice.

Elisa: How awful!

Emma: But, you know, in order to keep the high-pitched voice for a man, they basically have to snip off his testicles, I guess.

Hugh: And so it was a life of success, but there was no love in my life. None whatsoever. Because I was seen as a freak of nature. Women would not even approach me or touch me. And I didn’t have a say in this.

Emma: This is something that was done by his uncle, is what he’s showing me.

Elisa: Oh! While you were conscious?

Emma: When he was just a little boy, when he was a little boy! This was done when he was young.

Elisa: How old? How old were you?

Emma: He’s giving me eight years old.

Elisa: Aw! And were you awake during the procedure?

Hugh: Well, I was. But they kind of knock you out with some kind of …

Emma: It’s like they put a mask on and they put drops on it, is what he’s showing me.

Elisa: Oh, okay. Okay. Oh, God! How awful!

Hugh: And it was a very lonely life.

Elisa: Ohh!

Hugh: I had success from my singing. But other than that, nobody wanted to have a relationship with me, or have a family or anything like that. I was just a freak of nature. That’s how I was seen. And so that life … it was about … I wasn’t in control of my life. Somebody decided it for me. They took away my chance of a family. They took away my future in some way or form. And I wanted to come into this life and really be in control of my life.

Elisa: Yeah.

Hugh: And be the one who makes the decisions. And have as much love as I could have. So, you know, it was a lack of love, a lack of say in your life that created this Hugh Hefner life. I still liked the attention! I liked the fame.

Elisa: Oh, yeah, sure!

Hugh: That was the part I did like in that life. So I did bring that back into this one. But I was in control.

Elisa: Were you a good singer in this last life?

Hugh: I was one – yeah, I was a very – one of the best!

Elisa: No, no. I’m talking about as Hugh Hefner. Did you also have a good voice?

Hugh: Oh, as Hugh Hefner? Oh, no, no, no! (laughs) No, no, no, no, no!

Elisa: Oh, okay, okay. Now do you plan on reincarnating in the near future?

Hugh: Yes, I have a life. But it’s not for, if you look at your lifetime, it’s not for another 25 years or so.

Elisa: Okay. All right.

Hugh: So right now, I am just still adjusting. I’m still getting comfortable in my new body, in my new state of being. So that’s what I’m still doing. I’m still getting some help and being guided, so.

Elisa: Sure, yeah. All right, just three more questions. Can you share anything new about you that nobody knows about, but you? But you, and – or maybe family members, or whatever.

Hugh: (pause) I didn’t lose my virginity till after I got married.

Elisa: Wow!

Hugh: I don’t know if people know that! (laughs)

Elisa: Cool! How old were you?

Hugh: (pause)

Elisa: Or what decade?

Emma: Yeah, he’s giving me like 18 or 19. He looks like he was pretty young.

Elisa: Oh, okay.

Hugh: I was so open about everything, I don’t think I ever had much that people didn’t know. I was not a person who kept things.

Elisa: Right.

Hugh: Everybody was open to see and explore me as who I was. That’s just who I was.

Elisa: Okay. Do you have a message, a final message, for humanity?

Hugh: Love people. It’s about acceptance. And although we don’t always understand certain people’s sexual desires – because there’s a lot of things out there that people do not tolerate or understand. I’m not going to say that if it hurts another being, that we should approve of it. However, we should help that person. We should not judge them, but we should offer them help and assistance in seeing where this desire comes from. The starting point that it always has ­–

Elisa: Yeah. Wait, you sort of stuttered. So you should be aware of where this … ?

Hugh: Right. We should offer them help and assistance in discovering where this desire, this strange desire, comes from.

Elisa: Ah! Okay.

Hugh: There’s always an underlaying factor that created a desire. But, you know, as long as it’s not hurting anyone. As long as it’s not hurting any animals, you know, we should accept it.

Elisa: Yeah.

Hugh: You know, there’s people who have sex with their cars. There’s people who have sex with buildings. Okay!

Elisa: Yeah, that alluring tailpipe! That alluring tailpipe!

Hugh: Or a vacuum cleaner. Whatever people are into, it’s fine.

Elisa: Yeah.

Hugh: As long as it doesn’t hurt another being. And if it does, then we should not judge them. But instead we need to offer them help and see where this desire to hurt or dominate another person really comes from.

Elisa: So you can just defile a vacuum cleaner and destroy their reputation forever! Poor hoover! All right, now, I just want to know one last thing. Erik, do you have any questions for Hugh? Or, Emma, do you have any?

Emma: I don’t have any questions for him. This is like the third time I’ve talked to him, so I’ve gotten really used to his energy.

Elisa: I know! I know.

Emma: You know, for me, he just feels – I mean, I know there’s a lot of people who had this image of him. But for me, he really feels like a sweet man. He’s down-to-earth.

Elisa: I’ve always felt that. Yeah.

Emma: His energy for me feels very huggable. I call those the “huggable energies”. You just want to give him a hug and sit down and have some coffee with him.

Elisa: Ahh! So he can come over and hug me anytime, sweetie.

Hugh: Oh! Okay, I’ll take you up on that offer!

Erik: You know, I’m a little jealous of all the women that you’ve seen and hugged and done all kinds of fun things with. I have to admit! I don’t really have a question for him. But if there’s one thing I think that we all miss on this side, it is that physical connection.

Elisa: Yeah.

Erik: You know, sex is not just sex. It is surrendering to one another. It is surrendering to the moment. And it is such a mindfulness kind of act, that in those moments we totally lose sight of what is going on around us, what is bothering us. So, people, we need to do it a little bit more. A little bit more love-making and a little less fighting. And you will see that it’s not only good for your health, your physical health, but it actually releases stress and it releases all kinds of anxieties and built-up negative energies. So more love-making, mom! That’s what I’m here for. Keep going, you know, because you’re going to miss it once you come over here. You’re going to miss it!

Elisa: Uh-oh! All right, well, thank you both. Thank you, Emma. You guys check out Emma at www.emanuellemcintosh.com and I’ll put it right here. And bye, Erik! We’ll talk to you in just a second.

Erik: Okay. Bye, mom! Love you!

Elisa: Bye bye!

Be sure to support Erik, me and our cause by purchasing our books, all available in every conceivable format. My Son and the Afterlife and My Life After Death. They’re both very inexpensive, $11.55 and $8.80 respectfully. Well worth the positive change in your life.