Erik on Skeptics

Well, I’m in freaking Facebook jail AGAIN!! I can’t post links on any of my pages, and I can’t post ANYTHING on groups I’m a part of. Every time I try to post a YouTube link, I get a message that someone has reported the content as abusive, even when I JUST clicked to make the YouTube public and share to my timeline within seconds. In other words, there’s no way anyone would have time to watch the video to see if there’s any abusive content. (Which there is NOT). This injustice doesn’t expire until November 1st. In both cases of my Facebook imprisonment, I was prompted to change my password because of suspicious activity that may have jeopardized my account. It makes me wonder if someone is out to get me. You know how many haters I have! It wouldn’t surprise me if one was engaged in bullying me for some sort of revenge. If any of you know anything that might elucidate what’s going on and what I can do to avoid this happening in the future, shoot me an email at 

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Enjoy this video on skeptics and skepticism, channeled by the brilliantly gifted Jennifer Doran

Below is the transcript, but please let the video run so I can get the measly but better than nothing ad revenue. 

Elisa: Hello, Miss Jennifer and my boy Erik. How’re you doing?

Jennifer: Doing good. How are you?

Elisa: Good. I’m going to keep my intro kind of simple because I just went on and on and on with our first attempt here. So here I go again. Anyway, so we’re going to talk about how to deal with the bane of my existence: the extreme religious right and skeptics, close-minded skeptics. I mean, I was an open-minded skeptic, but you know, they can be so hurtful. Uh, my feeling is that unless they solicit information, forget about it. You know when the student is in need, the teacher appears or something like that…right?

Jennifer: Yes, absolutely. So, as we started and you brought that up, I…I…my stomach…I got sick to my stomach. It’s like…oh, I’m just…they…their energy is just so difficult to deal with. But yes, you’re absolutely right. For any of the real skeptics, the close-minded skeptics….

Elisa: Yes.

Jennifer: …um, and the…and the really, really religious…

Elisa: Yeah.

Jennifer: Erik says, yeah, you’re just best to just keep your mouth shut. You just keep your mouth shut because it’s only going to bring you grief and stress.

Elisa: I know.

Jennifer: It’s not going to…they’re so far…he says they’re so far to the other extreme that you might as well be speaking a foreign language to them that they don’t understand.

Elisa: I know. What…what is it? There’s something they fear. What is it that’s shutting them down?

Erik: Yes, sometimes it can be fear. But there’s just such a disconnect between their reality and the fact that there is a spirit world and there’s this whole other world that goes on. They just don’t…there’s just no connection. It’s like make-believe. It’s just like make-believe to them. Sometimes it’s fear. Sometimes a person from the other side will choose to come in with that sort of a block because there is a lesson to be learned there.

Elisa: Oh, what kind of lesson?

Erik: And there is a percentage of those people, skeptics and the very, very religious who actually do kind of believe in this sort of stuff.

Jennifer: Um, what they…sorry, he just made me laugh. He said, but they fear the devil, so…

Elisa: Ohhh.

Jennifer: Yeah, so they…they like shut it down, and it’s like that person that’s really anti-gay and really against gay and they themselves are gay and they just can’t admit it. He says so there are a percentage of the…of the overly religious and the close-minded skeptics who do it because they’ve had experiences themselves, and they think it’s the devil and it…and it scares them. So…

Elisa: You mean they’ve had paranormal experiences like they’ve…

Jennifer: Yes.

Elisa: …one of their relatives or…

Jennifer: Mm-hmm, yeah.

Elisa: They’re afraid that they might go to hell if they believe it?

Jennifer: Yes.

Elisa: The religious…they know that there’s an…they believe in the afterlife and they think there’s a hell and devil and all that, but um, why are they so opposed to channeling and the idea of other lives…reincarnation?

Erik: Well, quite frankly a big thing with the reincarnation is that that was kind of weaned out of religious beliefs so that people had the need to be good this lifetime because this is it, what you do here. Because a lot of religions when you go back and look, there was reincarnation centuries ago. They did believe in it, but it got weaned out to control the…

Elisa: Yeah, control the masses, make them…

Erik:  Control the behavior. Yes.

Elisa: Was that in the Council of Nicaea or the Council of Trent?

Jennifer: He says Nicaea. I don’t know anything about this personally, but when you said Nicaea, I got goosebumps.

Elisa: Well, why did they remove medium, uh, you know mediumship?

Jennifer: Yeah, okay.

Elisa: Or make it taboo anyway. Jesus was a medium, so…

Erik: Right. So, the thing about that is that is a human thing. That happened because…oh you don’t know if it’s, you know, a good spirit or a bad spirit. So, the fear is…the fear was…if somebody was talking to a medium, yes, the medium might know that they’re only connecting to energies from the love and the light, but the sitter, so to speak, has no way of knowing.

Elisa: But they might not be, too, you never know, I mean…

Erik: Yes, correct. Yeah, so, so again it was to control and to put fear in that…well, you don’t know who you’re talking to, so you just better not do it at all.

Elisa: All right. So how would that control, uh, people, uh, for those in power? How would it help those in power? Were they just being nice in saying…well, we don’t want you to be hurt by evil spirits?

Erik: Well, to get the spiritual connection, you would have to go to church.

Elisa: Ah and pay up a little money.

Erik: Yes. Yes.

Elisa: …to talk to God or Jesus or whatever.

Erik: Yeah, you have to go to the church. That’s the only place you know that it can be safe and okay.

Elisa: Yeah. Boy, people have been indoctrinated.

Erik: Quite frankly, religion does serve its purpose. It does…it has a purpose, but many, many people have found more comfort through mediumship and through connecting to the other side and through that spiritual connection that maybe they couldn’t find in church. So, for those people, maybe church isn’t the best thing for them when this is, and it’s…ideally, it’s different ways to get to the same place.

Elisa: Yeah. Now, I remember him saying that it’s a comfortable well-blazed path for some, and it does, um, you know, impart morals, teach morals and ethics, and there’s the…the sense of community and the humanitarian aspects of churches, so absolutely not, we can’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Jennifer: Yeah. He’s…sorry…he’s making me laugh because he said quite frankly, sometimes the masses do need to be controlled.

Elisa: Yeah, well, yeah…I mean, they civilized the barbarians, you know, various religions over time, but they were barbaric sometimes too…the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, the Jihad, so yeah. One thing that is kind of weird is that I’ve gotten so many ugly comments about…do you think you’re interviewing Jesus? Why would he talk to you? He would only talk to the pope…things like that. Of course, obviously, they don’t know Jesus, right?

Jennifer: Exactly. That’s absolutely asinine to think that that is how Jesus would be up there. You know, like, oh, I’m not talking to you. I’m not talking to you. I mean, yeah, what was the point of Jesus coming here, you know, um, if that’s what it was going to be? Oh, no, he’s only going to talk to the pope. No. Erik’s like, that’s ridiculous.

Elisa: Yeah, but I think they think…well, he only has…there’s only so many people he can, you know, communicate with, but that’s not true because all spirits, Jesus included, can, uh, split their consciousness, you know, infinite degrees, and you know, they’re in infinite places at once helping infinite numbers of people at once.

Jennifer: Yeah. Well, that would be the equivalent of saying that, you know, on Sundays during mass, Jesus is only present at like 50% of the churches who are praying in his name. I mean, that’s…and nobody, nobody who follows Jesus’ beliefs would believe that. So…

Elisa:  Right. I remember one of our mediums who doesn’t, uh, channel for us anymore. She was, uh, Catholic, and when they found out that she was doing mediumship, they…she’d been with this church, her family, for like 30 years. They took her into the office and said you’re out of here, man.

Jennifer: Yeah.

Elisa: What about inclusivity?

Jennifer: What was that?

Elisa: What about the inclusivity that you know that you’re supposed to embrace everyone in love as per Jesus’ teachings?

Erik: That has gotten lost. That got lost decades and decades ago.

Elisa: Oh, too bad. Why?

Jennifer: Well, that…that really is the human aspect of it. It’s like we all live…we live in a society, and so when you go to a church, this is an even more kind of defined society, by the rules that you will follow, and the things that you will do and how you will dress and how you will talk, um, and it’s gotten…control…control, you know from the humans at the top, and it trickled down. That’s what power…power, you know, clouds things. It clouds things for people. Yes, the idea has gotten lost decades and decades ago. Yes.

Elisa: Power corrupts.

Jennifer: It does.

Elisa: And humans, especially those in power, tend to need to categorize and sort and label, uh, and that means some are accepted, some are not.

Erik: And humans by nature have their own opinions on what is right and what is wrong.

Elisa: Right.

Erik: So, when you have people in power, you are subject to their opinions and over, you know, centuries, opinions become followed in that type of setting.

Elisa: Yeah. Will organized religion ever change or will it just disappear and everybody’s just into what we’re doing…spirituality?

Erik: It’s never going to…it’s always going to exist here. It’s always going to exist here. It does adapt and change, and it has, um, this is just one of those areas that you have to look at it in a snapshot, you know, like from a hundred, like, a hundred years apart. That’s when you see the changes. If you look at it year to year, you won’t see changes in organized religion very easily. You have to go 25, 30, 40, 50 years to see some changes. Um, yes, it’s…it is going to start to change…some, not all religions, where there is more inclusivity like you, like you were talking about because at the end of the day, the dollar signs count. The bottom line matters.

Elisa: Yeah. So um, you know 200 years from…I mean look, it’s so much better now. We don’t have the Salem Witch Hunt and the Spanish Inquisition and all that. What about 200 years from now? What will Christianity…let’s look at that one…look like?

Jennifer: So what Erik is showing me is that there’s going to be in that period of time a lot more, like, spin-offs, so to speak, um, a lot more sort of newer…not religions, but that are based…we’ll speak about Christianity specifically, where people are taking ideas from the Catholic church or the, you know, the Baptist Church and kind of starting their own churches, these smaller churches kind of popping up, um, in places that I get, like non-denominational, I guess you could say, non-denominational. He said there’s going to be a lot more of that kind of, um, stuff.

Elisa: Like the Unitarian Church?

Erik: Yes, yes, a lot more of this kind of stuff where there’s a mix of the spiritual with the Christian teachings and more…more inclusivity, more openness, but it’s going to be…there’s not going to be one like big one that would necessarily compete with the Catholic church.

Elisa: Right.

Jennifer: It’s going to be a bunch of little…which is, he said, is better because like doing it like that, you can’t get as much power, so it makes them be a bit more honest.

Elisa: Yeah, and people have more to choose from. Awesome.

Jennifer: Yeah.

Elisa: Will they ever, um, embrace mediumship and the…the idea of reincarnation?

Erik As far as the Catholic religion and many Christian religions, Catholic specifically, they already do, but it’s done behind closed doors.

Elisa: Oh. Well, when will they do so openly?

Erik: Over the…over the next 15 to 20 years, it will become more open, but the problem is that it opens up a little bit and then it closes down…depending on the pope.

Elisa: Yeah, who the pope is, yeah.

Erik: Who the pope is…it’s going to kind of teeter-totter back and forth, but behind closed doors, they do believe it.

Elisa: Oh, wow. Well, what about like Lutheranism or the Protestants? Do they…I mean, will they…I don’t even know, do they embrace mediumship and the notion of other lives?

Erik: With mediumship, it’s a little bit more rigid there. It’s a little bit more rigid there than even the Catholic church is.

Elisa: Because they want to be the voice.

Erik: Yes, yeah, it’s more rigid there. So, no, it’ll take decades for that.

Elisa: Okay.

Erik: But for the most part, it may never be openly discussed.

Jennifer: You know, the Catholic religion has, you know, words for this gift of knowledge, the discernment of spirit. Um, these are things that the Catholic Church believe in that encompass mediumship.

Elisa: Okay, but they say it in a kind of a…

Jennifer: Yes. Yes.

Elisa: All right, uh, so do you think that, I mean, it’s…it’s wonderful to have someone teach, uh, morality. Do you think children should…we should…should I have taken you guys to church, you little hellions? No, should we encourage parents to take their children to church, maybe a specific kind of church, or what…in order to instill morals? They never listen to us.

Erik: It does have its place for people. So if you’re compelled to do that, if you feel drawn to do that, then yes, but you know sometimes going to church can make you feel even more isolated and more excluded, you know. If you have a gay child and you’re taking them to church and then they’re hearing, you know, this kind of stuff, so it depends. It’s not an absolute yes for everybody. Um, you know, everybody should have some sort of faith, some sort of hope, something to believe in. So, if you don’t have something to believe in, yes, try going to 50 different types of churches and see if there’s something that speaks to you because everybody needs something, and sometimes that thing is a religion, an organized religion. But it’s more if you’re drawn to do it or if your kids are wanting to do it, drawn to do it. Um yeah, it can be a good thing.

Elisa: Yeah, just listen to your…your intuition or have them listen to theirs. So, would it be…is there like a spiritual church or is that pretty much Unitarianism?

Erik: Yeah, Unitarianism, but of course, that’s not going to be right for everybody, you know. Some…

Elisa: Yeah, they might want to be going to Buddhism, you know?

Erik: Yes.

Elisa: Yeah. Exactly. Okay, that’s good. So how do you handle attacks from, uh, extremely judgmental, closed-minded, um, religious people who, you know, attack what we and people in our group do?

Erik: The best thing to do is ignore them.

Elisa:  Yeah, just fight it with love. Just fight it with love.

Erik: Don’t respond. Even to respond in love is going to perpetuate, like if you actually respond in some kind of loving way, it’s going to perpetuate the negativity because….when you’re talking about an extremist, which is what we’re talking about here, we’re talking about kind of the extreme end. Extremists, no matter what they’re extreme about, have other issues going on. Usually there’s some sort of uh, addiction issues, some sort of an issue with control, um, some sort of issue with obsessive-compulsive disorder and behavior, um, and we’re talking about the absolute extremes where there’s no flexion at all. So, if you can remember it like that, you’re basically going to try to argue with somebody where you’d, you know, probably make better progress banging your head against the wall. It’s just not worth it. It’s not worth your time and energy.

Elisa: No. It’s, it’s hard to resist for some people because we always want to be right and make other people wrong and that’s what they’re doing. So, the worst thing we can do is do the exact same. But what if you’re talking face-to-face with them and they’re attacking you? Oh, I heard you do this… Uh, I wouldn’t just walk away. You gotta say something. Seems awkward.

Jennifer: Yeah. Well, I have…I have a personal experience here that I’m going to share. Um, I was out…I live in the south for those of you who don’t know. I live in the south, and I’m just going to leave it at that. Um, I was out at a store one day…at a beauty supply store, and I happened to be talking to the cashier and one of the other customers about what I do and, you know, so we were talking about that. And another woman, I could see her in my peripheral vision, I could see she was paying attention. And she came and she stood a very, very close to me, and I could hear her speaking under her breath. And I just looked at her, and I said, are you praying over me? And she said, yes, I am, and she tried to put her hands on me. And the other, um, customer jumped in, and she was like, you leave her alone. And I never said anything else. I just let this woman take over. I never yelled at the woman. I just…the only thing I said to her was, are you praying over me? And I did walk…I did…I just walked away. Um…

Elisa: But if somebody had not intervened, would you have said anything?

Jennifer: I probably would have just been like, all right, you know, thank you, I appreciate it, and just would have left. That…that’s me, though. I…I don’t have the need to make people understand and get it. I just look at it and say how sad for you that you don’t believe in this stuff, and I feel bad for them. It took me a long time to get there, um, to do that, and I hid…I hid for a long time what I do and my beliefs. And Erik says that’s an option for people, you know, for some people who are afraid of that. You just keep it to yourself or only share it with your group of people that you’re comfortable with. But he said for like somebody like you who is out there, um, in the public, and in the public eye, um, he says for you, one of the big reasons that you have trouble sometimes walking away is that Mama Bear energy takes over. He says you feel as though they are insulting me directly…

Elisa: Right.

Jennifer: …and so for you, I, you know, he’s like I understand why you…why you do it, but it just causes grief on you.

Elisa: It does…

Jennifer: Just, you know…I feel…

Elisa: …and people like you to handle this on their own, but if somebody comes up to me on the street and starts attacking me verbally…

Erik: Taze them. Taze them. Get a taser and taze them.

Elisa: Oh, that’s so funny. Erik. Gosh. No, really. What do you do? You can’t be condescending and say, oh I feel so sad for you…you’re so unconscious. I hope that you will awaken one day. No, what do you really do?

Erik: Situation by situation. If somebody is aggressive and in your face…

Elisa: Right.

Erik: …you may want to just, you know, say I feel threatened, you know, you’re in my space, something like this to make sure that you’re protected…you have your protection. If somebody is screaming and yelling at you, just walk away. They’re not going to hear anything you say, anyway.

Elisa: Well, what about if they’re just…not screaming or going ballistic, but they’re just showing disdain and critical. Do you say, well, I respect your…?

Erik: Yeah, just the best thing…the best thing to do is just not even engage. Just, you know, I respect your opinion. Have a nice day.

Elisa: Yeah, there we go.

Erik: And that’s it. That’s it. The more you engage, the more it spirals.

Jennifer: And…

Elisa: Right, right. I understood about the…

Jennifer: Oh, go ahead.

Elisa: Go ahead. No, no, no.

Jennifer: What he’s saying is if somebody is coming up to you like this anyway, they’re confrontational. So, the more you give them, he said, there is a chance that this spins into a physical altercation. Yeah, so you just want to be careful to avoid something like that. If somebody’s brave enough to come up and call you out right to your face, who knows what they would do?

Elisa: So, what do you do about family members? Because some who believe in this kind of thing…you know, they’re alienated by family, by siblings, parents, uncles, aunts.

Jennifer: Yeah, so, in a situation like that, um, when it’s family and if you’re still seeing your family, if you’re…if, you know, because sometimes this gets to the point, he says, where people have to just…it’s like nope, you know…family…I can’t deal with, I don’t talk to, I’ve disconnected from. But he said, if you’re going to still be around the family, he said, sometimes you have to respect that that’s not a topic of conversation that you can have with them and you just don’t. You just don’t discuss it.

Elisa: But how do you heal wounds that are already there that have been there from previous discussions even though you don’t plan to discuss it anymore? I mean, the tension is there. It’s kinda awkward.

Jennifer: Yeah, it can be weird…it can, um….

Erik: Well, you know, sometimes you just carry some of those wounds with you. You know, it’d be great if we came into a life and could heal every wound we ever had, but we don’t. Some of them we die with. And so, depending on the severity of what the family situation was, maybe some of those wounds harden over a bit but aren’t fully gone. And then that’s just part of human life.

Elisa: Well, is there anything that one can say to at least halfway repair the relationship? Like look, I know that we had a disagreement…we disagree about this, that, and the other thing. I don’t want that to hinder our relationship. So maybe we could just agree never to discuss anymore.

Erik: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then you’re…what that does is that lets you let go of the control of it and then it depends on how the other person responds back to you.

Elisa: Okay, that’s good. All right. Let’s…oh, go ahead.

Jennifer: No, no, no, we’re good.

Elisa: Now, let’s go to the non-religious, you know…not everybody who’s a close-minded skeptic is so because of religion.

Jennifer: Yes.

Elisa: Now, we talked about how some are because they feared, they don’t want to go to hell, they’ve had paranormal experiences. Is there anything else you want to say about that, Erik?

Erik: No, no.

Elisa: Do we handle them pretty much the same way?

Erik: Yeah, the skeptics who maybe are more like atheists or, you know, don’t believe in anything…when you die, you’re dead, that’s it. You do handle them basically the same way. A lot more with those type of skeptics, what you’ll hear more is that you’re taking advantage of people, you’re lying. That group tends to be more like, oh you’re charlatans, you’re feeding on people. For whatever reason, that group tends to be more of that kind of stuff. So, any of the anger that typically comes from them is about that – about being fake, being phony, lying.

Elisa: And usually people project. Usually, if they’re blaming you, criticizing you for doing that, that’s probably something they would actually do.

Jennifer: Yes, and this is where you’ll also as a psychic or medium in this industry, this group of people will also want you to prove yourself to them, you know. Well, you know, tell me what’s in my left hand or, you know, this kind of stuff because they want clear-cut absolute proof.

Elisa: Oh, I’ll tell you what’s up your asshole…

Jennifer: Yes, yeah.

Elisa: So, um, why are some atheists…why do they get so angry at us? Are they like how…I feel sorry for your victims…how dare you…?

Erik: That’s not what it is. It’s not that they feel sorry for the victims and stuff. What it is a lot of times is jealousy. The comfort that it gives people to believe in this stuff, they just don’t understand. There’s anger there. A lot of times in this area, there really is a lot of fear about death, about the afterlife. This comfort that they’re missing, that they have no way of getting because if they don’t believe in a spirit world at all, there’s no religion that they’re going to feel comfort in. So, it’s a very scary place to be, and it tends to make them lash out.

Elisa: Oh, I can imagine. It must be awful. So…

Jennifer: Yeah.

Elisa: How do people become atheist? For example, why was my father such a militant atheist?

Erik: In particular with your father, that was part of the chart. That was part of the soul chart. So, you came in and by nurture were this way, by your upbringing. But by nature, you were always going to come to the spiritual side. That was just your nature.

Elisa: I was never an atheist. I was…you know, after some of the beatings, I would lay down in bed as a six-year-old or so and say, God, I’m going to give you one more chance to prove yourself. If you can’t, then you are dead to me.

Jennifer: So, what is that? More like agnostic? Like you’re not sure…you were…

Elisa: Yeah, I was pretty much that most of my life.

Jennifer: Okay, um…

Elisa: I think he was betrayed by the Catholic Church. My great-uncle was Cardinal of Spain, and, you know, I think that he was disappointed in Catholicism. And also, he was sent to a boarding school. His parents were in the hallway and said, we’ll be right back and they didn’t they come back until months later.

Erik: Even with having the religious upbringing, your father really didn’t have…there wasn’t a strong belief that anything existed even from a young age. It was a block for him. That’s how it has to be when people don’t believe in anything of the spirit world or God or Jesus. It’s such a…it’s such a firm block that they create, and when that’s the choice, the life path, there’s actually a spirit guide that comes in and makes sure that block kind of remains there. So even though this is your belief, you still have your spirit guides and stuff, but it has to be that way. It’s a very…it’s a very difficult life to experience without any belief in the spiritual or the afterlife. It’s very difficult to do that. Very difficult.

Elisa: Oh my God. I know when I was calling on the phone to my dad crying, Erik’s dead, you know. And, um, he said sorry, Elisa, he’s going to turn to dust. That’s what he said. That’s…

Jennifer: Yeah, when life is hard enough anyway, could you imagine having no faith in anything after this, like, what would be the point?

Elisa: What would be the point of living?

Jennifer: Yeah, there wouldn’t be.

Elisa: So, what about other atheists? Why do they…if it’s not, you know, a spiritual contract? Why do they become atheists?

Erik: Okay, so the very scientific-minded will lean towards this, again proof. There needs to be proof. It’s not to say that if there wasn’t some sort of proof, they wouldn’t change their beliefs.

Elisa: Yeah.

Jennifer: But, you know, us in the spiritual world know that…oftentimes that proof, what we call proof, is quite subtle, so…

Elisa: But for scientists, it has to be…

Jennifer: Concrete.

Elisa: In real science anyway, you have to be able to perceive it with one of your senses or measure it with an instrument. Um, so.

Jennifer: Yeah, so the very scientific…very scientifically minded will lean towards that, he said, but he said, you know, that doesn’t always mean that they’ll be like aggressive in saying no, none of it exists. It’s like, you know, well if I can’t see it, if I can’t prove it, if I can’t measure it, then…how do I know it exists?

Elisa: Now, why is there a divide between conservatism and liberalism? It seems like conservatives, I mean, they tend to be involved in religion, some to an extreme degree unfortunately, the religious right. But in liberalism, there’s a higher percentage of atheism. Why is that? Or, you know, is it? First of all, let’s ask, is that true?

Erik: Yes, there is some truth to that. And quite frankly, it does have to do with the brain function…right and left brain.

Elisa: Oh. Yeah. I think the left has a more developed right brain. Is it right brain?

Jennifer: I can’t remember either.

Elisa: They’re able to deliver messages emotionally much better than conservatives do. Conservatives tend to be…

Jennifer: Black and white.

Elisa: I mean, we’re generalizing…

Jennifer: Yeah, generalizing but very black and white, very right and wrong, very…

Elisa: Yeah, and more…use more logic than heart.

Jennifer: Yes, yes. That scientific mind, that mathematical mind.

Elisa: It seems like that would make them more, you know, I don’t know. Maybe it’s because conservatism had roots in, you know, our forefathers who were Puritans and stuff. And so, religion sort of was in that…they made you conservative because you had to follow the rules blah blah blah blah.

Jennifer: Yes.

Elisa: I don’t know what I’m talking about.

Jennifer: There is some…there is some…there is some…like I can’t…he’s trying to give me some fancy word and I’m like Erik, I don’t know what you’re saying. But there is some truth to that through…throughout time. Um, you know, we still have, um, traits and characteristics that have come from centuries ago, you know. We’re not that disconnected from our ancestors.

Elisa: That’s true.

Jennifer: And so yes, there is some truth to what you’re saying. And of course, this is like…

Elisa: I don’t even know what I said. It made no sense.

Jennifer: No, it did. If you listen to it back, it makes sense. It does make sense. But it’s um, you know as with anything, it’s not all or nothing, so it’s not all conservatives, not all liberals. He said there’s, you know, a mix of everything, everybody and all beliefs in both areas. But yes, there is that more spiritual towards the liberal, the more, you know, conservative religious towards that side.

Elisa: All right. But atheism in liberal circles, we’re saying is more prominent.

Jennifer: Yeah.

Elisa: And the left, and maybe part of that is because of academia, you know, professors, they’re like scientists. They want proof and all that. Could that be part of it?

Erik:  It’s absolutely part of it. And then what happens is you have a group of people who…you have a group of people who believe something and then they start talking about it. And then other people come along who have similar beliefs, or you know, similar political views. And so, then you get kind of convinced that, yeah, this is how…this is how we evolve as a society. Yeah.

Elisa: And students in academia are influenced by their professors. I mean, they’re…they’re in a position of authority, and if they are like, academic scientists and need proof just like any scientist would, then of course that makes them have a propensity to, um, to be an atheist. But then on the other side, a lot of liberals also embrace things like Buddhism, and…

Jennifer: Yes.

Elisa: …and alternate…Eastern religions. So, it’s very complicated.

Jennifer: Yes. Absolutely.

Elisa:  The conservatives are pretty much either, well, I don’t know. They seem to be the mainstream organized religious types, but um…

Jennifer: What Erik was saying when you were talking about that is that, you know, if we’re speaking within the United States because, you know, plenty of places where the college education stuff isn’t feasible for everybody, but he says, you know, now so many more people can get higher education. So, it’s why…it’s like why there’s like this big divide, you know. Two hundred years ago, not everybody in the United States was getting extended education. Now, a big percentage of people are, so it’s why there’s such a big split between liberals and conservatives.

Elisa: God, that makes so much sense.

Jennifer: Yeah.

Elisa: Wow, what an epiphany. Okay, so how do you handle an atheist that’s, you know, not the comments on YouTube, but if somebody’s in your face saying, you know, I don’t believe, you’re just going to turn to dust, this is bullshit, prove it to me, and things like that. What do you do with that?

Jennifer: Erik says…he’s funny. He said the best thing you can say to them is say I’ll meet you on the other side then, and we’ll have this conversation over there.

Elisa: Oh, I like it. One more question. Um, Madalyn O’Hair, the famous atheist throughout history, um, was that a contract?

Erik: Oh, absolutely.

Elisa: Ooh, what was she meant to teach the world or learn for herself?

Erik: Almost always with that kind of contract, you come in to have extra struggle and extra challenges because there’s no hope, there’s no nothing.

Jennifer: How sad is it to think that you’re living your life in those moments when things are not going well, which we all have, when things are a struggle? Like what is the motivation to stay? You know, it’s very difficult. Very, very difficult.

Elisa: Poor thing.

Jennifer: Yeah, but also to be…to be kind of in the…in the limelight, um, in the forefront to sort of…I don’t know…bring this to light and for others to follow.

Elisa: Yeah. Wow. So, um, in my father’s case, he just…I think he wanted somebody to look down on, um, so – I’m an atheist. You guys are being brainwashed. But also, he was really afraid to die. And that’s another thing. I mean…

Jennifer: Yes.

Elisa:  He feared immortality, I mean mortality. He essentially said towards the end, I should be immortal. I can’t die. It’s ridiculous. And so, he used me as a scapegoat, even though I was the one that helped him all through his life.

Jennifer: Yeah.

Elisa: With the way he treated me the way he did at the end, he was angry at me for believing something he could not believe in.

Erik: Yes. Yes. There is anger. That is part of what is to be learned is that anger and that jealousy, and see, somewhere in his subconscious, that comment of him saying I should be immortal, that was somewhere in his subconscious where his subconscious knew he would be. Because it doesn’t matter what you believe here, you get to go there.

Elisa: And then when he crossed over to the other side, I pretty much channeled him to say hey, so what do you think now? Well, I’m a little bit right because it’s not a real, like a God that sits in a chair. I said, I never believed in that, Dad. And oh my God, he is really kind of a dick. It was funny.

Jennifer: Yeah, yes.

Elisa: Anyway, Dad, I do forgive you. Um, I really do. So, anything else you want to share, Erik, on this subject?

Erik: Regardless of what you believe here, you do get to cross to the other side. And then when you get there, you’re like, oh, yeah, right.

Elisa: Yeah, yeah.

Erik: Because you were there before you got here.

Elisa: I mean, you may be in darkness for a while, but then you’re like, oh my God, where’s my dog or why am I thinking? I shouldn’t be thinking; I’m dead. And ask for help and help arrives.

Jennifer: Yes. Absolutely, absolutely.

Erik: I love you.

Elisa: I love you, too. Love you, Jennifer. You guys check her out at and join her…us…in my home at the upcoming event in October. All right. Bye-bye.

Jennifer: Bye. Love you.

Elisa: Love you, too.

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Elisa Medhus

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