Saturday was a tough day for my family and me. Erik’s death anniversary. I sat in the car in a parking lot with my husband as that horrible time approached. 12:41 PM. The moment that he pulled the trigger. At that time, I sent Erik my love and wept. Days like these make it seem like that tragic event happened yesterday. All the sights, sounds, smells, emotions and chaos came roaring back into my heart, which, I now realize, is still quite broken. 12:41. Those numbers add up to the numeral 8 which signifies rebirth and a new beginning. For him, yes, and for my family and me to some extent, but it was also the death of so many things: hopes, dreams, future memories and a whole and happy heart.
I did as Erik to help me catch a couple of fish for dinner because so far despite many attempts, we’ve been feeding fish and not catching any. For the first time since we began this new hobby, we caught two speckled trout, and I know it was Erik who helped because as I reeled them in, a dragonfly floated by us in the water. I thanked him for his help and, of course, the fish for their sacrifice. Knowing two fish were enough to feed Rune and me, we stopped trying to catch more and went back home to cook a wonderful dinner. Thanks, my love, Erik. Oh, how I miss you so much. Now we have to get past his burial day, October 12th.
I also went to the Sacred Heart Catholic church in Galveston to light a candle for Erik and to visit, for the first time, the place where I was christened. Weird that my atheist parents christened any of us!
Time is approaching for the exciting event at my house October 19th through the 21st! Be sure you sign up by clicking HERE. If you plan to come but wish to book it at the last minute, let us know so that we can order enough food, drink, materials, etc.
Enjoy the transcript of today’s video!
Elisa: Hello Miss Jennifer, how are you doing?
Jennifer: I’m good, how are you?
Elisa: I’m fine and how’s my main man, my baby boy Erik?
Jennifer: He’s great.
Erik: I’m great today.
Elisa: Awe, you’re great everyday, and there is no time, so there is no day so you’re equally great.
Jennifer: Yes, absolutely.
Elisa: Well, I love you.
Erik: I love you.
Elisa: Can’t wait until our event, you guys need to come, October 19th, 20th and 21st, Jennifer Doran, Jamin Olivencia and of course Erik and who knows what else, it could be all sorts of surprises. All right, so we are going to talk about with ya’lls permission, the me too, the hashtag me too movement. There’s so much going on in that arena, this is just a huge thing that has been closeted for so long, the sexual harassment and molestation of women especially in the workplace, where, men in power, with power over women feel like they’re entitled and can get away with this stuff but on the other hand, you have I’m sure some cases of women who make allegations that are not true, especially toward people that they’re not controlled by but are in a position of power that maybe they want to extort money, etc. I mean, don’t be hating because you know it happens on both sides, men and women. So, Erik, give me your take and if you want Gillian chime in that’s just fine too.
Erik: This is such a huge, huge topic and there is so much to it. It’s really, this is the time for there to be actual change.
Erik: Because of the hashtag me too, this is a possibility for real change to happen, put aside all the other stuff that’s going to come along with anything. Anything that is being talked about and in the public eye and get a lot of publicity, there’s going to be people with not the best motives that kind of latch on to it, that’s just human nature, set that aside for a minute. People really are, but if people take notice and step up and come forward and are nice to people this is so hard for the people who come forward.
Erik: So often they’re not treated nicely, and it creates a fear, but if everybody could just accept that this is a culture that has existed for decades and decades.
Elisa: Probably centuries.
Erik: Yes, it needs to change and there can be real change in this time, that we’re in right now there can be real change with this. In this sense, the internet and the social media and all that stuff that sometimes has negative effects, without this, without the social media this would happen. That’s why it has taken so long to get to this point because it needed to be on a global platform and social media is how it’s going to happen.
Elisa: That’s awesome, well why, oh there goes the emergency thing, why does it exist to begin with? Is it probably because we live in a patriarchal society? And have for, well not throughout all human history, there have been some place where there was a matriarchal society, but for centuries we have had a predominately patriarchal one.
Erik: Yeah, this really is a global epidemic, a global issue, but yes, it’s because it’s a patriarchal society, and especially as it relates to the workplace, when a man is doing this to the female employees, it’s like they have gotten away with it for so long. Of course, understand that yes, there are women who do this, there are also men who are victims but we’re just speaking in general terms right now. Yes, when you get in the position of power you think you’re entitled to do more than what you’re allowed to do. Quite frankly for so long they were allowed, it was allowed.
Elisa: It’s terrible, when you augment yourself to a position of power you should use that power for good, for making people feel better about themselves, for turning people into great leaders and great mothers and great fathers and all that stuff.
Erik: Yeah but see, for these people who are in power a lot of them feel like “oh if I’m showing you that kind of interest, you should feel grateful”.
Elisa: Oh, because I’m famous, or I’m powerful or I’m rich, or all the above.
Erik: Yes, so as if they are doing them a favor, is how the mind set can be. It’s so twisted, and it’s delusional, really a lot of these people who have done these things are delusional to what they’ve done. They don’t realize how they’ve affected these people, because you know if you are the person that is having to deal with this and being subjected to this, for some people they immediately go into a victim mode, where they don’t know what to do and don’t know how to get out of it, need the job and that snowballs so quickly, for people, but they just really don’t know how to get out of it.
Elisa: Yeah, it’s difficult and then that works for the guy, and so he continues his predation to other women. I have been the victim to that sort of thing, oh gosh so many times, but I’ve never accepted. Somebody wanted me to go on a date when I was in university, and anyway after the movie and dinner, he just said “well I want to go upstairs and let’s have sex”, and I go “what are you talking about?” He said, “what are you talking about, I just bought you a movie and a dinner.”
Jennifer: Yeah, like you owed him, now. Ridiculous.
Elisa: Bye bye.
Jennifer: Ridiculous. I personally have also been in the workplace subjected to this and honestly, the way that Erik is putting it, he says really and truly if people were willing to admit it, it’s definitely more have than have not.
Elisa: I have been accosted by patients, I have been accosted by co-workers, a neighbor, oh gosh, I just could go on and on but yeah, it’s not pretty, it’s very very common.
Jennifer: Yup absolutely.
Elisa: And, well anyway, why do so many people, know this is going on but look away, like Meryl Streep, Jane Fonda, I mean shame on them for admitting that they knew exactly what was going on, not saying anything so these predators can attack other women, and frankly, Hollywood, they’re supposed to be pro-women, pro-women’s rights etc., it’s just, I don’t understand the hypocrisy, why would they look away?
Erik: Weakness and selfishness, that’s not to say that they are bad people, that they are horrible people.
Elisa: No, nobody said bad people, they just made bad choices.
Erik: Yes, in these situations, weakness is fear, you know I’m afraid if I do this, what will happen to me, if I come forward what will happen to me and that’s where kind of the selfishness comes in, I don’t want to lose my career, I don’t want to be dragged in front of the court system and you know, it’s across the board why people don’t get involved in crimes that they see, because people are afraid, they’re concerned about themselves, their welfare, they’re not thinking about other people. That’s what happened here, they weren’t thinking and it’s also, particularly with the Hollywood stuff, it became such a culture there, actually it was more of an open culture in Hollywood than it is in the rest of the world, like if you were actually in Hollywood, you really pretty much had an understanding of how it worked, and it was just this how it has worked for years if you want, you pretty much just have to get on board.
Elisa: And the big-time names, and the Hollywood execs have so much power over even someone like Jane Fonda, and Meryl Streep and all that so, I could see they could have completely lost their career, not get any movie roles or TV roles etc., so. Still there were people that came forward, women that came forward and started this whole hashtag me too, so, that took a lot of courage and my hat goes off to them.
Erik: Without the hashtag me too, which is a wonderful thing, without that, it would have taken much longer to find their strength. When there’s a group, there’s strength in numbers, and so when this started happening, and people started trickling out, they knew, the people who kind of started saying yeah this happened, this happened, they knew that there was dozens and dozens of them behind them, so they knew that there was others that were going to say yup this is exactly what happened, but without the safety of numbers it would have taken much longer, so, yeah the #metoo is huge for this. It’s just the beginning, stuff is going to get rewritten on sexual harassment, it’s going to be an overhaul over the next 5 years.
Elisa: It’s about time. Should these people who admitted that they knew it was going on that didn’t bring it out to the public to protect women that were presently being abused and harassed and those in the future, shouldn’t they have consequences of some sort?
Erik: Yes, there should be consequences, the problem is going to be finding consequences that won’t prevent others from stepping forward because if the consequences are to severe, then people will just shut back down, so that’s tricky. Yes, of course there should be some consequences but if you say, yeah okay, you’re going to go to jail for 2 years, well nobody else is coming forward on anything.
Elisa: No, yeah okay that makes sense.
Erik: That’s tough.
Elisa: But that needs to be admitted immediately, and people need to document things as much as they can, you know, recordings, video, whatever. I’ll get into why in a minute, but so what do we have to learn from all of this as a collective?
Erik: Honestly, this actually is a global shift in how we treat each other, so that’s what there is to learn here is that empathy and sympathy and also there’s this togetherness because to the people who are now not ashamed to admit something happened to them, and then there’s other people oh yeah, that actually helps heal, when you can finally say you know what this happened to me, and then other people are saying well this is what happened to me, this is what happened to me, and it cuts that in half for each person. That suffering, this really is huge, and it’s really pretty exciting because it’s just starting, it really is just starting for what’s going to come, because there are people who have looked at their behavior, and said “I didn’t realize what I was doing was wrong”, because they were so ignorant to their position and the power that they had and that they were putting people in a position where they felt as though they couldn’t say no. So, there are some people who we would consider to be the abusers who are really horrified at their behavior.
Elisa: It’s probably the women, may not have given them feedback, like Oh no don’t do this, because if they did, they’d be afraid to lose their job so, there was maybe no communication back to tell them abuser that, I don’t want that.
Erik: Yeah, especially for if you take that out of Hollywood and take it to you know people who need their job to eat and to pay their bills and to take care of their children and their families, you know that’s a tough decision, when it’s about your life and your survival. As far as the Hollywood, that’s a little bit different because they’ve got money, there is money so it’s not like okay if I say no to this person, I’m going to lose my job and I don’t know how I’m going to pay my rent next month.
Elisa: Well it could be, some of these young actors and actresses.
Erik: Oh yes.
Elisa: Or the grip boy or all that.
Erik: Absolutely, but I was talking the upper, for the people who don’t, if the manager at the department store that you work at makes a pass at you, and you’re afraid if you don’t that you’ll lose your job, well, that’s an impossible position to put the person in.
Elisa: Of course. All right, so the perpetrator, I mean when they do things like that, oh I know one thing I also wanted to say that maybe I channeled from Erik is, I don’t think for the collective lesson here, it’s only about sex, I think it’s all in all about love, about loving each other and trading fear for love, which are opposite sides of the same coin, is that right?
Erik: Yes, oh absolutely, this is not just about sex, it’s about control, it’s about power, it’s about love, it’s about all this stuff and it really is for the people who are willing to learn from this, it will help them be more empathetic towards others, absolutely.
Elisa: Okay. That’s good, and the #metoo movement has really helped bring us together as a collective, at least in some part. What do we do with the perpetrators, I mean, you know, you can’t be completely, in compassionate, they do this for a reason, and in some cases it may be some pain or fear inside, why would you want to lash out and latch onto control if there wasn’t some sort of fear or some sort of negative thing involved.
Erik: Yeah. As far as that goes with the perpetrators, it really is, it must be a case by case, which it will be anyway. No, anybody who abuses their power, there needs to repercussions for anybody who abuses their power and they get caught there needs to be repercussions.
Elisa: Absolutely! But is there also something we can do to continue to help them?
Elisa: Obviously, they must have some sort of pain inside, I don’t know maybe I’m wrong.
Erik: Yes. Those are two separate things though. Yes, helping them, yeah absolutely, whether they need help psychiatric help, psychological help, whatever kind of help they may possibly need, but there still needs to be some repercussions.
Erik: Maybe, it’s just that the person loses their job, or it doesn’t necessarily mean jail.
Elisa: Yeah, it depends.
Erik: Yes. It doesn’t necessarily mean jail, depending on the situation and the person, but yeah there needs to be something. It’s like companies need to step in and have their own rules of hey, if this is what happens, if you are caught partaking in any of this, zero tolerance.
Elisa: Oh yeah, zero tolerance.
Erik: Zero tolerance policy, it’s what they have in schools with drugs, like that type of a thing. Companies will start adapting a zero tolerance, which will be helpful because people will lose their jobs.
Elisa: Right, absolutely.
Erik: So, they might think twice about, you know.
Elisa: Yeah, now of course this whole thing with Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh, has gone on and these other accusers and I’m a little disappointed in the democrats for knowing this and to lie and not caring enough about Dr. Ford to do anything about it, it’s like, release the secret weapon when they needed it. They’re supposed to be a party that’s so pro-women and yet they’re using, I think, I might be wrong, Dr. Ford and saving her for a political weapon and I’m just, is there a danger of that, are we only going to have Supreme Court justices because every male is going to be guilty until proven innocent.
Jennifer: Yes, so it’s funny, Erik was talking to me about this before we did this call, and we’re going to end up talking about Kavanaugh so.
Elisa: We don’t need to talk about who’s guilty and who’s not, I don’t care about that.
Jennifer: He already said that.
Elisa: No, I don’t even want to go there, I just want to know what this means for the future and why is it going on and what’s happening.
Erik: Yes, that they way that they have handled it, as far as having the letter and not doing anything about it right away, whether it was or not the perception is that it was a tactical maneuver.
Elisa: Oh, it was.
Erik: So, whether you believe it was or it wasn’t, the perception is that it was. This is tricky, they have to tread so carefully here because, it’s like this particular situation it’s almost like, a lose – lose with this particular situation. It’s not but it’s going to appear to be a lose-lose.
Elisa: It is a shame, when we start using the #metoo movement and women as a political weapon, I’m sure if the tables were turned, the other side probably would have done the same, hopefully not but maybe would have done something else, I mean something similar, it’s really scary, and I also see a lot of double standards, like for example, they’ve pretty much said Kavanaugh is guilty, I don’t care, I believe the woman because she’s a woman, because she’s got a vagina, we believe her.
Elisa: Yet, with Keith Ellison the second in command of the Democratic Party, he is in trouble because his ex-girlfriend said he abused her, but they dismissed all charges and whatever because they said there was no video evidence so, they needed video evidence for him and then you have Clinton, who dismissed Roderick and she’s very quick to assume that Kavanaugh is, so the double standard.
Erik: Unfortunately, anytime there is a political aspect, it doesn’t matter you’re never going to get the full story.
Elisa: I know, and it’s probably true, both party’s people.
Erik: Oh absolutely, whenever there’s a political aspect you’re never going to ever get the full story or what’s happening but one of the potential downsides of this is, is because of what has happened to Dr. Ford, it may make some people afraid to step forward.
Elisa: Yeah, that’s too bad. That’s really a shame.
Erik: It doesn’t need to, but it may. It may make some people afraid like you know it’s kind of scary to be put out there like that.
Elisa: I know they were interviewing kids on campus and they’re all saying, “Oh my God, now I’m really scared because anything I say or any perception of what I do or say, it can haunt me 40 years later, and destroy me, my career, my family.” So, what does this mean for the rule of law for the whole thing, for the you are innocent until proven guilty, that our founding fathers stated in the Constitution?
Erik: Yeah so.
Elisa: Ah, sorry, what to do you if it’s a he said, she said thing? I mean.
Erik: That’s tough because in this situation it seems like a trial but it’s not really like going to court, being presented in court because he said, she said stuff is tough to prove. If there’s no video, if there’s no nothing, it’s very tough to prove that, and so it is as far as that goes moving forward, especially if there’s not a lot of, like with Bill Cosby, there was so many stories that were similar, and so that even without video evidence or any of this stuff witnesses, that would probably hold up in court. That would probably do it, but if something is happening like that, where you’re going to go to court, there needs to be proof, there needs to be evidence or a history of stuff, that’s going to be a little bit harder to change.
Elisa: Yeah and that’s too bad in Dr. Ford’s case, I mean it could be that he did something, or it could be that it was somebody else and she’s, the wrong identity. I feel like she’s being sincere, my advice to women, is if something like this happens to you.
Jennifer: Say something immediately.
Elisa: Go immediately to the police, get the DNA testing and fingerprinting and whatever you need, okay.
Erik: You say something.
Elisa: Make sure friends video tape and.
Jennifer: Erik is getting a little bit animated here, yes you say something right away, it doesn’t matter what you were doing, how you got into the situation that you were in, you have to know that it’s not your fault that, yes you may feel embarrassed and yes there might be some shame that you feel, you know right or wrong, right, wrong or indifferent, those are just the feelings that happen, you still go and you say something.
Elisa: While evidence and stories are still fresh, because you also need to do this for women who could be future victims of the predator.
Erik: The #metoo, this is what it’s teaching, especially the younger women because for those of us that have kind of gotten a little older, this is new, this a new thing, so the things that happened in our 20’s, it’s like okay maybe I see now, but for the teenagers, young girls and boys, and boys, because this happens to men and women, girls and boys. You just say something right away but there so much fear, this is going to help the fear lessen.
Elisa: Good. That’s good. So, that another good thing about the metoo movement, like you said strength in numbers. All right, so, let’s see, is there a danger of the accuser giving false allegations for, let’s talk about accusers that give false allegations because they want money, power, exposure, whatever.
Elisa: How common is that?
Erik: It’s a small percentage, of people who come forward and say something. Honestly, look at what happens to people who step forward, I mean this is not a fun thing to do. This isn’t something you’re just going to be sitting at home thinking, you know I think I’m going to say I was sexually assaulted because you know this will be fun. Most people who step forward it’s truly because something did happen, but there is a percentage of people who like the attention or think that there’s a financial gain from it, so they do it.
Elisa: Well a lot of them don’t even need to be public, they can just extort and say I will go public with this, I think the percentage of false allegations is probably pretty small, what less than 5% or?
Erik: Yeah, some where around 2.
Erik: So, it’s a pretty small percent but you know it does happen and people do hear about it, you know and so that does, for anybody that does that, it does set back this #metoo movement, it sets it back a bit.
Elisa: What should we do to help the victims? Besides not making them feel ashamed of sharing their story and know that it takes courage.
Erik: Yeah, that is all good, like if you work for a corporation and something like this happens.
Jennifer: He just reminded me there was something from before, somebody can’t have a legal action, but corporations can take over and handle, but they can also handle some of the victim stuff as well.
Elisa: Oh good.
Erik: If you are working for a corporation and you are sexually harassed by a co-worker or a boss, that companies will start having support groups or counseling, that’s one of the things that you’re going to see too.
Elisa: Good. That should be it, that’s awesome. Let’s talk about women abusing men, or other women for that matter.
Elisa: How common is that?
Erik: What is truly the most common is men to women, that really is the most common, women to women, men to men, women to men those are all kind of closer in percentages. It absolutely does happen, it’s the the same.
Elisa: Treated the same, as far as reparations.
Erik: Absolutely, there should be no difference, there’s a victim and a perpetrator.
Elisa: That’s true. Now, what is this mean to white male and white male privilege, it seems like the white male is under attack here. I mean part of it is they have given a lot of fodder for, a lot of material for people to act on, but it’s almost like they are being prejudice against on so many levels right now.
Jennifer: It’s weird the way he’s putting that, is it’s like, it’s being made a focal point, when it doesn’t necessarily have to be because it’s all races, that are the perpetrators and the victims but yeah, quite frankly there’s a lot of white male figures in power, so it’s kind of like that. This is inconsequential.
Elisa: Defining it as the bad white male, oh you have too much, I mean that just divides us more, we should just leave race and gender out of it and see each person as just a human being who has either doing something good or something not so good.
Jennifer: Yes, and that’s kind of how he’s making me feel about it is it’s like, that’s going to kind of wash away, it’s like a focal point that’s a little bit of a distraction because.\
Erik: Take race, take all that out of it, you’ve got a perpetrator and a victim, it doesn’t matter what the perpetrator looks like or what the victim looks like.
Elisa: Human to human that’s it. So, what’s it going to take for us to be mutually respectful of each other regardless of gender, race, religion, etc.? I mean this is a step in the right direction but what is this going to take.
Erik: Knowledge and understanding, as a race of people, we’ll never fully get there, it’s a constant learning process, but this type of thing, this type of shocking thing is how we start having a better understanding of each other. We need stuff like this, that’s dramatic, that’s unfortunately that’s sad and shocking and, as humans we need that kind of stuff because those really are the things that force change.
Elisa: Yeah, that’s too bad. I mean, too bad it takes so much. Well, you know, I also think that we shouldn’t be battling this with hatred, battle it with love, you can’t put out fire with fire, like that, was it a Georgetown professor, said that all the white senators should die a miserable death be castrated and then be fed to the swine, I mean that is not going to make the world a better place, that is not going help, so I think that is disgusting.
Erik: Yes, horrible.
Elisa: Fight it with love, of course that doesn’t mean these people don’t have consequences but still fight things with love.
Erik: That type of thing, people are going to have that reaction of that type of passion and anger and hatred and no that’s not an effective way to handle it but you’re still going to have that but actually people who have that kind of passion who say these type of things, they actually help in a way because they keep.
Elisa: The conversation going.
Elisa: Oh, okay, I see, yeah that’s good, so there’s a purpose.
Elisa: And maybe the thing the public will take away is, it’s not to be that way.
Erik: Okay, that’s not effective.
Elisa: Yeah, that’s not good, that’s evil. All right, let’s talk about what’s going on in the Catholic Church, the abuse of young boys and men by the priest, what’s going on there? And what can be done about that? That should be part of the metoo movement really.
Erik: It is, absolutely, this fits right in to the #metoo movement. It’s as if you take a sub-culture of people so it’s like the #metoo movement on a smaller scale, yes, they do fit right in. This needs an overhaul, this needs an absolute overhaul in the way it has been handled to this point. That is already started, there will be change there as well.
Elisa: Good I think it took, calling Pope Francis, is it, on the carpet for looking the other way in this instance.
Erik: Because again back to the social media and that stuff being a real plus in this situation, people aren’t going to stand for it anymore and at the end of the day, the bottom line is the bottom line, the Catholic Church needs money.
Elisa: Oh, they don’t want people to fall away from, yeah, yeah and it’s probably already happening but.
Erik: Yes, it absolutely is, so this is going to have to be an entire overhaul of the way that they’ve handled.
Elisa: How awful that it would take money to stimulate change, instead of just the difference between right and wrong.
Erik: Because money is one of the best, if not the best motivator for people.
Elisa: Yeah, shame too, because I saw this thing on T.V where this Nathan somebody, I think he’s a comedian or a screenwriter, he had like 3 people that wanted to lose weight, so he had them write out, I mean do something really embarrassing and he would keep that and they would come back and weigh, and if they lost 5 pounds in a week, then he would give them back the whatever, and if they didn’t he would send it to whoever the said, like send a picture of me naked to my mother if I don’t lose, just awful things and it was really a great motivator so.
Erik: Yes absolutely, in a situation like this when you take what’s going on with the Catholic Church, there were people in there who knew what was happening, but didn’t have the power to sweep it under the rug and hide it, they were witnessing it and not knowing what to do and again that fear and that worry about myself, I don’t do anything, and that’s how it was able to perpetuate for so long.
Elisa: But these are children.
Erik: Yes, it’s horrible. Money is going to ultimately be a big motivator here. And yeah of course right from wrong should be enough.
Elisa: But anyway, nobody wants to be an alter boy anymore. All right last question, how can we spread this to other part of the world, like the middle East, you know they have quite the dichotomy between men and women and I’m sure there’s other parts of the world even more sexual abuse than we have here.
Erik: Oh absolutely. It’s already spread to other countries, this #metoo, its kind of has some global reach at this point, but yes, as far as the countries that really have issues, that’s just going to take longer, it’s going to take more time but eventually it will seep through globally.
Elisa: Okay, how long will it take to where things are much better in the United States?
Erik: With regards to all of this, there’s huge changes over the next 5 years, don’t let the 5 years scare anybody because there will be changes along the way. But on snapshot of right now and snapshot of 5 years from now, there’s going to be so many more programs and just stuff implemented for this kind of thing, foundations, it’s going to be big, much different.
Elisa: That’s great! Okay, that’s awesome. Okay, Erik I love you so much!
Erik: I love you!
Elisa: Jennifer, this was great, you guys go check her out at psychicmediumjenniferdoran.com, I will probably put this in since it’s so currently relevant, next in queue, so let’s talk about the event that’s coming on October 19th, 20th, and 21st, all you have to do is click on the button that is on the web, the homepage of ChannellingErik.com, and it’s on the right hand side bar, click on it, register for it, and anything else you want to say about it Jennifer?
Jennifer: It’s just going to be a great event, if you can make it, come it will be a lot of fun.
Elisa: And it’s going to be at my house and we’re going to, since my husband and I need to get rid of some of Erik’s stuff slowly but surely, we’re going to give some of it away, not out of idolatry but because if you have some of his stuff sometimes it can help you connect to him better so. All right.
Jennifer: Real quick that’s called psychometry.
Elisa: Psychometry that’s right/
Jennifer: So, if you hold an object that has energy from somebody on it, it’s sometimes easier to pick up the energy and so that’s a real true thing.
Elisa: All right, well thank you Jennifer.
Jennifer: Thank You.
Elisa: Bye Erik.