The Afterlife Interview with Koko, the Gorilla

Check out this amazing Erik Encounter:

Every morning since I’ve found your blog it’s been apart of my morning routine. I get up, feed my 4 little ones, make my coffee, and listen to your videos as I go about with my daily chores. This particular morning I decided to sit and watch instead of cleaning up the living room of toys that have gathered from the day before like I do every morning. So as I’m sitting in my chair and having an internal conversation with myself about being lazy and needing to get things done (I was really letting myself have it.. I’m not always the nicest person to myself) the remote control race car that my son left in the living room pops a wheelie. It got my attention! So I find the remote on the floor, it was turned OFF. I figured it was just the batteries in the car that made it do that so I went back to my inner conflict of being lazy and needing to get up and start my day. As soon as my thoughts started that remote control race car took off and hit the wall. I must off jumped 3 feet in the air! I immediately went and picked it up and realized there were NO batteries in the car. I started laughing because I knew with out a shadow of a doubt that it was Erik. That day I bought your newest book and I’m so glad I did. I’ve since bought the other and another copy for my mother. Thank you for sharing your son with all of us.

Also,  don’t forget tomorrow at 6 PM CT is Erik’s Hour of Enlightenment radio show. In Thursday’s show, guest Mark Ireland, son of a renown psychic medium and author of Soul Shift and Messages from the Afterlife, will discuss how the death of his son, Brandon, was the catalyst that ignited his interest in Afterlife research. A story that is eerily similar to my own. After that, Veronica will channel Erik as he answers questions from listeners. You can find her Call 619-639-4606 15 minutes prior to talk to Erik. I’ll see you among the list of callers and I usually go down the list from first on. If you’ve tried to get on to talk with our boy more than 4 times, email me at and I’ll see what I can do. Honor system, though!

 One more thing: Sammy is a blind musician who we’ve come to know during her calls into the Hour of Enlightenment Radio Show. Here’s a message from her. Enjoy her amazing talent by clicking on her Sound Cloud link. Erik wants her to start a YouTube channel, so she’s working on it!

My name is Sammy. I am 29 and have been blind since birth. My mom was only 5 1/2 months pregnant when I was born. I weighed 1 pound and 6 ounces. I wasn’t expected to live being so small and under developed. The doctors told my parents I wouldn’t make it through the night. I stayed in the hospital for 3 1/2 months. At some point during that time my retinas detached and I became blind. I’m really lucky that being blind was the only thing that happened because of my being born so premature. It’s really a miracle I’m even here. I guess I really wanted to fulfill my life‘s mission.

part of my life‘s mission is using Music to spread a much-needed message to the world. I sing and write music. I also have perfect pitch which is a gift, but can sometimes be a curse lol! My message is simple, love. A message of acceptance, and finding your own passion, a message of helping the world to remove all of the barriers that we put on ourselves. I have picked an extremely hard contract to fulfill, but if I can create a life that’s worth living, you can too. I don’t let being blind stop me from doing anything I want to do. I even took a trip to South Africa by myself around Thanksgiving of 2016.

I really hope you enjoy my music, and I hope it inspires you to find your passion, your calling in life. If you’re going through something that feels unbearable, I hope my music can help heal, help soothe, help get you through your pain. Music has done all of these things for me, so I want that for you. I’m in the process of recording an album, and I will be sure to let everyone know when it will be released. For now though, you can hear my music at

I also have a facebook Sammy SweetSpirit, and a twitter _SweetSpirit_.

Love to all,


And now for our interview with Koko. Thank you, Erik for bringing her in, and thank you, Michelle Gray, for being the amazing medium you are. The transcript follows.

Elisa: Hello Michelle and Erik!

Michelle: Hello from both of us

Elisa: Ah, We just got through say I love you’s, so but, you know it still goes, I still love you

Michelle: He says I love you, he goes never misses a moment to say I love you.

Elisa: I know, we don’t, and we didn’t miss a moment when you were alive too. I’m already exhausted because my son in law is getting orientation out of town for a new job and Michelle’s working night shift in the ER, so I have been taking care of thier kids. Easton,   oh my God, he’s like two and some months, and he is a, oh girl he’s a handful, he opens up cabinets and drawers, and he’s into vacuum cleaners, but he’s really happy when he does it, he’s not one of those handful kids that because their angry or sour, so he’s just..

Michelle: Right, just busy! Erik says he’s a busy busy boy.

Elisa: Oh my God! He is very busy. Any who, well we are going to interview Koko again! And guess what peeps? You know it! We already did this before, but I forgot to push record. But I see recording, recording, recording, so we’re good! All right! Erik did you did bring Koko in?

Erik: Absolutely! Koko’s already been here, we are all ready to go.

Koko: Thank you so much for this opportunity because I’m getting the feeling , there’s been a little bit of time or whatever has transpired since the last time we spoke, it’s like something is opened up a little bit more.

Erik: Things happen for a reason, and that this will be even better today, so

Elisa: That’s good! Well thank you Koko for, you know, having to do it twice, hate to put you out because I know how busy you are as a gorilla in heaven. Anyway. All right so, this is really almost all for one blog member, but I might add in some, now as many of you might not know. Koko the gorilla passed away June 19, 2018 in her sleep and she was 46 years old! Awesome! Ah, so, um Koko, first I want to ask what caused your death?

Michelle: So, she’s bringing me right to the heart and she’s talking about the heart slowing down and stopping. She gives me the feeling of not feeling well or not being well, but that ah it was very much a very peaceful passing. There wasn’t anything like  a disease or anything of that sort, that it seems to be of a very natural passing.

Elisa: All right, so just died of old age, her heart just wore out. Did you ever have a life as a human being?

Michelle: Now, this is funny, because did show us the first time that we talked to her a life of a human being and she is giving me the same type of images but I’m seeing it from a little different perspective, than I saw it before and she’s showing me that a child, and I’m not getting a location but it’s dry, it has cactus or that type of foilage around and I’m, I want to say Mexico, I want to say something like that.

Elisa: Ok, well Erik, Erik where is she getting images from?

Erik: South America.

Elisa: Ah, South America! Ok.

Michelle: I don’t know, if there’s cactus’ in South America or not but

Elisa: I’m sure there is, ok, and tell me about that life Koko

Michelle: Koko’s talking about, family, there’s also, about the connections and the family that she had, she’s also showing me a grandmother, that there was a connection between her and a grandmother but she says in this family, they didn’t have  very much, there wasn’t a lot money, there wasn’t a lot of , she says there was a lot of love, and there was food, they had means, but she says there were a lot of children and there was also a communication that she was able to do with the grandmother , is deaf? Erik says that the grandmother was deaf or couldn’t hear.

Elisa: Ah.

Michelle: So, that she had a communication and that she was never taught  to communicate, this was something she says she was just naturally very good at, and that the other family members would use her to communicate with the grandmother.

Elisa: Did she use gestures or did she use telepathy or both or something else?

Michelle: She’s actually giving me this feeling and yeah, giving me the feeling here and saying that it was a lot of telepathy.

Elisa: Ok

Michelle: It was a lot of just understanding what the grandmother, but she says it was also gestures and she’s saying too that there’s a connection between the two of them so there was an understanding that was there and that she was able to pick up on cues with the grandmother so I feel like the grandmother wasn’t able to see.

Elisa: Oh

Michelle: I’m getting the eyes being covered,

Elisa: Yeah

Michelle:  So there was not sight but I’m feeling vibration, and sound and understanding

Elisa: That’s cool, so maybe that’s connected somehow with the fact that you were taught sign language by humans as a gorilla, is there a connection there?

Michelle: She says yes and that was one of the reasons why that life is so prominent because communication was something that she has worked through in other lives in different forms

Elisa: Ah! Now you were captive from birth, were you happy throughout your life living with humans and did they take you away from your mother or was your mother dead or did your mother die? So you were captive at birth, were you happy?

Michelle: She said that there was, that she was very young being taken away from her mother that there was , there was not anything that, she said that it would be no different than taking a small child out of a situation that was dependent on the mother figure, she said that she didn’t have the conscious awareness to know that she was taken from her mother because she was still given everything she needed. It was more of an adjustment but she said that her mother her mother was not dead, I feel like her mother was separate. I don’t know if the mother if the mother disowned her or there’s something that occurred.

Elisa: What is it Erik, maybe you can help? What happened, why did they take, I hope it wasn’t a great mother baby relationship and you know humans just ripped ah, you Koko from your mother’s arms.

Michelle: No, it doesn’t, Erik’s saying no, it wasn’t like that. He’s showing me a lot of people in a situation, and I get the feeling that there was something that blocked the mother from an accident or something, Erik? Or something that happened possibly? He says that there was there was a disconnection that occurred so possibly the mother was not maybe had been hurt or something of that sense. I’m being shown a lot of images right now, but she’s just, she really focusing on the fact that that was not really an issue.

Elisa: Ok

Michelle: That taking her away, that she wasn’t just  she’s putting love around the situation and saying that she wasn’t just taken and pulled out of a situation and ripped from her mother’s arms.

Elisa: She was saved.

Michelle: She was saved.

Elisa: Ah, now Koko do you have an understanding that you were different at least in some ways from humans?  Or, I know you probably do now but, did you then?

Michelle: She said yeah, yes, to a degree, she understood that she had differences, but she had a great deal of love for those that cared for her and she did feel part of that family and she’s also saying too, and Erik is holding up Ah, toys, little stuffies and things, and the did things for her to help engage that, so that there wasn’t that feeling of “I’m being put separate in a cage” or “I’m being treated different than these folks”, it was more like they come at these times and they help me and feed me, they take care of me, they spend time with me. It was not this feeling of separation, as “I’m not the same as you”.

Elisa: Oh ok, in what way did you feel like you were different, though, than humans?

Michelle:  She says physically, so Erik is say that she had the conscious awareness of the fact that is she put her arm beside a human being’s arm that it looked different, she also had a conscious awareness of her size

Elisa: Ok

Michelle: of her mass and I feel, is that because, he says that was something that became apparent to her the more that she would learn, it was her size, was so much bigger than the rest.

Elisa: Ah Ok

Michelle: She’s, she’s it’s not her energy, she physically says, she’s ballooning up her size and physically says her size is that much different

Elisa: Ok, now Koko was it very difficult for you to learn the sign language, did you have a true understanding of it?


Michelle: She says she did have a very good understanding of it and she also says too that she learned very quickly and she was, they worked persistently with her, almost in a therapeutic kind of way, she says.

Elisa: What do you mean Koko?

Michelle: It wasn’t like, she says if we were to compare how I was trained or how I worked with sign language, you wouldn’t compare that to how say a dog trainer would work with a dog.

Elisa: Ah Ok

Michelle: There was so much more emotion put to it, that it was therapeutic in the sense that it didn’t seem like work for her. It was fun for her, it was engaging for her and she keeps bringing me , she shows me a female, and she keeps bringing me the feeling that she had an affection for a female and there is one male that I felt too, I remember this from before, there’s a male figure there too. So I feel like that was a connection, so she was, she was quite capable of catching on quickly and this sign language was, what it was for those that were training her, that started to change the understanding of really what she was more consciously aware of.

Elisa: Oh, well that’s interesting! So, you never felt you were some, part some sterile uhh some scientific experiment?

Michelle: She says absolutely not! Absolutely not.

Elisa: Were you, ever mistreated? Even by a handler that didn’t then got fired because of it or whatever? Mistreated in anyway?

Michelle: She says no.

Elisa: Physical negligence, anything?

Michelle: (shaking her head) She said no, she said that she was never mistreated, she was never mishandled, and she is saying that the connection that she had with the people that she was with the handlers or very family orientated, she saying that there were some that didn’t know quite how to handle her but it was not, she was not put out like a circus display. Those that had connections with her, there was meaning for all of them

Elisa:Aw that’s so nice

Michelle: There was learning that went both ways, and it was never in an environment that would have ever put her in some sort of distress or pain.

Elisa: Oh thank God. Did you ever have the understanding that gorillas were supposed to be wild and free? Or were you even around any other gorillas, did you even know that other gorillas existed, like did they show you television, you know films or

Michelle: She said that she did, that she did have the understanding that there were others that were like her, she said that the instincts that she had, , of freedom were, she says it’s nature and nurture, so she said she was given and she was treated in ways that would help her explore that, she never had memories of , she showing me, and I gotta tell ya, Erik is like showing himself swinging.

Elisa: Oh God! Oh he’s done that, I have a picture of him doing that when he was little so, go ahead

Michelle: Yeah Yeah, she said that she didn’t have that memory, that had she had been older and ah been in captivity at a much older age that there would be those instincts to undo, and what she is comparing to, is that she says even when we look at ourselves and she says think of ourselves, and as human beings the experiences that we have and how our families and those that are around us shape our beliefs, and she says that was very much the same for her.

Elisa: Did they every show you other gorillas or show you films of videos or whatever of other gorillas?

Michelle: She, I see a television set.

Elisa: Ok

Michelle: and I also feel like she may have interaction, did you, she did, ok so she’s saying that she had interaction with another gorilla, other gorillas and I want to say more than one

Elisa: Ok

Michelle: So…

Elisa: Oh, that’s right, you had a mate, a romantic, you know a sexual mate but a reproductive mate, but we’ll get to that later, Ah, did you choose to be in captivity before you were incarnated, was that part of like a spiritual contract?

Michelle: Yes, she says that this was not just for her spiritual contract, but one of the handlers, she isolating again a male energy and saying this was very much part of a spiritual contract between the two of them.

Elisa: Ah, did you have any favorite caregivers, you talked about one woman and one man, one male, were those your two favourites?

Michelle: She’s highlighting the female energy, and what she’s saying is this was a love of her life, she said , and she says she spent most of time, a lot of the deep emotional connections she had is with this female energy.

Elisa: Aw!

Michelle: And I don’t know if this person had family as well because she’s saying they were my family, and I feel like it is going with this female and who she is surrounded by

Elisa: Ok, did you feel like she was a mother or a sister to you or something else?

Michelle: She says the combination of a little bit of both

Elisa: Ok, or a friend too, I mean you know that could be it ya know

Michelle: And a friend, and a friend too, she said but she is saying not a peer, she didn’t feel like a peer and Erik is saying feeding and handling, like there is things that just instinctively it felt like a caregiver

Elisa: Ok, ah were you ever lonely? Everybody gets, every being probably gets lonely but, what about you?

Michelle: She’s expressing that she did have some loneliness at times, for companionship, she had loneliness at times for companionship for those that she knew when they weren’t with her.

Elisa: Oh I see, ok, whether human or gorilla.

Michelle: uh huh.

Elisa: Or kitties, we’ll get to that in a minute, ah,

Michelle: She showed me a kitten.

Elisa: Awe, All right, how do you feel about humans in general, as a species?

Michelle: She’s saying that she loves, she loves humans, but she doesn’t love some of the choices that some of the humans on our earth make

Elisa: Are you talking from your perspective now?

Michelle: She saying oh, do you want to hear perspective as what she felt of humans living or?

Elisa: Oh, yeah both, if you want?

Michelle: Both? Ok, no she’s speaking from now, that she has a great love for the human beings on the earth. She says that it hurts her heart and I’ve got quite a sinking feeling, she says it hurts her heart, it hurts her being to see what some of the choices in some of the and some of the things that do occur, she saying as a living being when she was living in this life , she didn’t have fear of humans, she didn’t feel, she didn’t feel, if anything she felt like humans were part of her extended group, they were part of her, don’t know if they would call them packs or her family and she didn’t have an understanding outside of that but what she did say is that she had a very good intuitive ability and she was able to, , she had different people that she would visit with or different people that would study with her and she did have that intuitive ability to pull away or maybe be a little more interactive with somebody she knew what they were capable of doing and that was part of her natural instincts that she had.

Elisa: Ok, I’m sure somebody might come in and just have had a bad day fought with their wife or something and you kind of pick up on the emotions is that way you’re saying?

Michelle: Yes.

Elisa: Ok, do you have a gorilla form now, or what sort of form do you have, I guess?

Michelle: She says I can have whatever form I want, and the form I see her in right now, physically with my eyes, I see a column of light and in my third eye she’s a gorilla and it’s a, her light is a very big, big presence

Elisa: Ah I bet, that’s pretty cool, now ah, this one blog member also says, on  YouTube and photos you look very sad and maybe even crying at times, can you tell us why, I mean what was making you feel sad, if you were even sad?

Michelle: She says that this is a really good example to talk about how the media could portray or how things can look because there are photos that were taken in moments that possibly, she was, she’s saying that eyes dripping doesn’t always necessarily mean crying so to speak and she said that the media can sometimes make things look a certain way. She said that she was not sad, she said those pictures did not capture the pure essense of what was really going on.

Elisa: So, it’s like fake news to me, maybe some of the animal activist groups, which I do condone, right, were you know upset about her being in captivity but I guess it’s better than dying without a mother

Michelle: Yup

Elisa: So, All right, ah, what were Koko’s thoughts about meeting Mr. Rogers, Robin Williams, Betty White, let’s see Koko met other famous people including William Shatner, Flea, Leonardo Di Caprio, Peter Gabriel, and Sting does Koko have any notable, that she would like to mention about any of them, anything notable she would like to mention about anything, so that’s kind of a broad question

Michelle: Well, Robin Williams energy just came in here, with Erik

Elisa: Uh oh! Hi Robin

Michelle: He’s says Hellooo, and ah,

Elisa: He probably has as much fur as Koko right?

Michelle: That’s exactly, that’s exactly what he was showing me, cuz he’s showing me (making gorilla motions and noises), doing the whole monkey thing and he is so furry but Koko is just saying that uh she never had the comprehension that these people were what they were to us, what we thought of them to be. So she said each interaction with everyone that she had these special moments with, were special to her because the energy and she’s making feel like the energy of Betty White was very special.

Elisa: Oh, I was just going to ask…it is, she does, oh my God, it going to be huge when she dies, I don’t want her to ever die

Michelle: Oh I love Betty White, yup

Elisa: She is so real, ok so, so was that your favorite of all the you know I guess

celebrities or notables or whatever that you met, or do you have other favourites?

Michelle: She says to Robin Williams, she goes this one wasn’t too bad, over here, this one was a lot of fun. She’s not really pointing out anyone else, in particular, , I feel like somebody was eating with her cuz she’s giving me this sense that she shared a meal or shared food so I am not sure who that was with

Elisa: Who was it? Erik?

Michelle: Robin Williams

Elisa: Ok, was there anybody whose energy you weren’t super fond of that you met?

Michelle:  a little bit earlier and she’s just showing me now, that there was somebody that came into help wherever she was living, came in to do something and I feel like this person had something to do with electronics or was not a direct with her

Elisa: Right

Michelle:  And that his energy used to make her feel off

Elisa: Yeah but…didn’t mistreat her

Michelle: No

Elisa: All right, another question what was life like for you Koko prior to sign language to learn sign language compared to after?

Michelle: She said there was still communication. She was very, very intuitive she said she was able to have an understanding with those that were with her, she goes now sign language made that a whole lot easier

Elisa: Oh yeah

Michelle: and once that hump was gotten over, but she says before that it was no different than if and she’s bringing up with Autism and with other different, you know there was other things that were used in place of sign language that communication was part of, so she said it was just different, it wasn’t necessarily

Elisa: Yeah, like lecture, I mean gestures, ah facial expressions,

Michelle: She’s doing this with her lips (playing with lips)

Elisa: Emotional

Michelle: Yeah

Elisa: Oh yeah

Michelle: She’s grabbing her lips, possibly she was happy or silly, or the way she would pull her lips so that those that were with her were able to pick up on those cues and understand how she was feeling  and she also says habit, repeating things over again and habit was also a way to communicate

Elisa: Ok, what she think about other apes, chimps or you know in captivity in the research lab?

Michelle: She says she can’t do a blanket answer for all of that as many as there are things that are going on that are not ok that are not

Elisa: Oh yeah. Course not, but when you were alive, also, well actually this was about how do you feel about that, yeah, there’s of course  there’s horrible things going I don’t even want to know about it

Michelle: If she said she didn’t have consciousness of captivity. It wasn’t it wasn’t like that. So she didn’t really have that conscious. Now she is saying that with her the way she was though had they have taken her and put her in a situation and she were to see that she couldn’t get to her peers or if she were to see it in a different a different light I suppose what you’re saying then her reactions might have been a little more primitive they might have changed a bit but she didn’t see that she didn’t have conscious awareness of that.

Elisa: Good. Were you in that case most of the time. Are we allowed to like wander around the room and hang out with your human buddies.

Michelle: She’s showing me that there was an area, And it’s quite a big area with metal bars and there a gate and the gate is open. And she’s saying that she didn’t have free reign to just go wherever but that. Her handler those that understood her knew that there were certain things that were always take into consideration for their safety and for her as well but that it wasn’t she. This is quite large as what she’s showing me. It’s. It’s not a tiny little. This is quite a large area. She also had So I feel like they had Erik is it like a an outdoor terrarium, Like some sort of outdoor place that she could go into and have played exercise and play time and all of those types of things she says.

Elisa: Oh that’s awesome. What did you ever like. Ever walked out had a caregiver to another room were like. The only humans I mean outside your habitat.

Michelle: She says she was as she was transported to other places because I guess she wasn’t brought for other locations yet.

Elisa: Did you have enough toys and playthings to distract you into entertaining.

Michelle: She said yes so it was you and me. She shows me a blanket a small blanket and she also had a stuffed animal like a stuffed Kitty Hawk a really old stuff. Yeah. Yeah OK.

Elisa: Tell me about this little scene. Well what about that thing with the little kitty.

Michelle: So she’s showing first, More than one kitten. There are several kittens

Elisa: OK

Michelle: and I’m seeing her sit and I can see kittens around her.

Elisa: Ok, Is it does you think. Yes go on sorry,

Michelle: So she she’s saying that There was a contract between her and this kid and there was a contract of friendship. And she said and this was a whole different kind of communication to it. And he took one of these kittens. She does make me feel like there are more than one kind. So he’s only showing me holding one at a time. But I feel like there was more than one kitten. But she said that there was a special kind of love and she said that was her maternal instinct.

Elisa: Why did they give you a bunch of kittens to crawl all over you?

Michelle: She said  that they believed that she was gentle, they believed that she was they felt very strong in her, in the way they had seen her handle and had seen her behave, she says that the toys and with people in general and that she had this abounding kind of love that came from her. A very nurturing, loving, tender type energy and somehow these kittens I’m not quite sure because she’s not telling me exactly how they came in, but there was a decision to be made to allow her to have a kitten and she is saying that this kitten, this kitten lived with her.

Elisa: Aw, Mommy can I have a kitten, please, please Mommy I promise I’ll take care of it, yeah I’ve heard that line before

Michelle: That’s hilarious because she’s showing me this kitten getting bigger as a cat and her big gorilla hands, like taking care of this cat, that is adorable

Elisa: Aw, so how did you show affection toward humans, would you stroke their hair, or kiss them, hug them, what sort of things, how would you show affection to for example the female caregiver that you were very close to?

Michelle: She when we were just talking, just before you said that she was showing me, blonde hair and her hands on it and her hands going through the hair, touching the hair, touching the face, touching the nose, and she’s also saying too, she’s making a point about the question earlier about seeing the differences, and she says part of that is her exploration and touching but and it is also was showing, showing her showing the other being that she was gentle, it was like I touch you, now you touch me, it was that type of energy

Elisa: Ok, would she ever kiss or hug, or do gorillas even kiss I don’t know, those are pretty big lips, probably swallow your face whole

Michelle: She said yes, that she did kiss and hug, yes

Elisa: Aw, ok, All right what can you tell us about the intelligence of the ape species that could enlighten us more about them, you know maybe we have some misunderstanding about their intelligence maybe you can set us straight

Michelle: The first thing she says is that evolution is not just affecting the human beings

Elisa: Oh Yeah

Michelle: That it’s affecting all beings, and the potential that we all have including apes and chimps and gorillas and all species there is a bigger potential, and she said that there is a lot that we don’t understand, there’s studies that continue and that she said that a lot that we can understand about our own energy  and our own being by studying the apes and studying the studying how they are and she also says in a environment that would be productive for everyone but she said that the ape species has a lot more capability but at the same time she is saying that it is also not something that what needs to happen is a respect of them living in the environment that is best for them and for us not abusing that and separating it to try and make (lost audio) she says the truth is is that their species, meaning the apes and chimps all have their own evolution to go through.

Elisa: Yeah of course

Michelle: and she said so she making it feel more of observation, and us taking less of let’s try and make you like a human being

Elisa: Or take over your terrain etc, apes some of them also have a reputation for being aggressive and unpredictable but we also know from situation like Koko’s that they can be sweet and loving, what do you have to say about that Koko, I mean chimps and humans from what I understand are the only two species that will kill for sport for example so that’s I mean most of the other apes it seems like their aggression is for survival or to win over a mate or territory etc., so maybe you can expand on that

Michelle: She said, so she started talking when you were finishing there and she said that first of all she says there’s really no difference that we say there are some people that come with a certain DNA that are more prone let’s say when we go back to the idea of nature vs nurture so in a certain situation they are going to be more prone to be aggressive or be a certain way, and she say so really the meat and potatoes of the whole idea is not much different than what human beings would be

Elisa: Ok

Michelle: So she said you know yes you could still have an ape that was put into the same situation as her that say didn’t have the same experience because that ape wasn’t able to be in that environment

Elisa: Ok

Michelle: She’s like not all apes would be able to do what she did, and that’s just you know that’s just the way that it is like human beings she says

Elisa: Well I find that some chimps are killed for sport, like humans

Michelle: She says that there are things about chimps just like humans there is mental illness

Elisa: Oh!

Michelle: There are things within them that, that are not widely understood, there is also that vindictiveness that they have a consciousness to feel almost like an anger or a slightedness in some way.

Elisa: Ok, I guess it’s on a case by case basis

Michelle: Yeah and that’s what she was just saying that it’s hard to put one blanket on that, because that’s a very complex

Elisa: Oh yeah of course

Michelle: Really could get pretty complex looking at that

Elisa: Ok, here’s another one, can you tell us about the doll you were given, that you cared for as if it was your own baby, was it similar to a human child caring for a doll or was it deeper than that and also do you wish you had babies of your own

Michelle: She said that she had a maternal instinct and yes she did want to care for another being but she’s saying that doll was like an extension of her caregiver

Elisa: Oh, interesting

Michelle: That doll was very much like that line so she says if a mother were to go away and leave their child with something that had her scent on it or something that looked she said that made her feel like it was part of her family that was the extension so, that’s pretty interesting.

Elisa: That is very cool, awe, ok, now can you tell us about your relationship with your mate Mike, what was it like, when you lost Mike?

Michelle: She said it was very sad

Elisa: Yeah of course

Michelle: It was devastating, she said that there was grieving and it was evident that she was grieving

Elisa: Yeah, well what kind of relationship was it, a friendship? A sexual relationship?

Michelle: She said like when we mentioned the name Mike earlier, she said brother, and she saying that it was more of a, she said it was deeper than a friend but it doesn’t feel sexual, it doesn’t feel maybe that was there but she was saying that it was like a brotherhood, like a

Elisa: Ok, sister/brother, like siblings

Michelle: Yeah

Elisa: Why didn’t she have babies? And do you wish you had?

Michelle: She first said that wasn’t her path, she makes me feel like that was a consideration, she’s not really expanding on that but she says, she says that it’s something that she didn’t, what she knew and again she’s bringing it back to what she knew, was what she had and she did have that mothering instinct and it was never something that she felt that she was missing but she’s saying it was wanted for her and what I feel by that is that and I’m not sure if she couldn’t have babies for some reason or if they tried to do or something like that but she’s very (shrugs shoulders) like it wasn’t like a big deal, she was very fulfilled in other ways

Elisa: Ok that’s good, well I tell ya I think it was really wise of ya to go with kittens because during my motherhood especially when my five kids were teenagers when I thought oh God I should have had five kittens instead, I really did say that, Oh God! Boy it wil slap the ego outta ya girl.  All right, are you with your mate Mike now?

Michelle: Yes, I’ve Mike’s energy right beside her

Elisa: Aw Hi Mike, have you had any other incarnations with Mike?

Michelle: Yes, yes

Elisa: Ok, aw that’s good. Now do people and gorillas reincarnate between species or are they separate? Now we sort of answered that because you were a human child before

Michelle: She’s been other species before too, she’s showing me a tiny tiny little bug

Elisa: Oh!

Michelle: Little bug

Elisa: Which, can you say a life that most influenced your life as Koko, maybe it was the one in South America as a little girl who has these communication gifts

Michelle: She said it was and she is also saying that there were communication was something that she didn’t master in every life, so she is saying  that it took her a couple lifetimes to get that down pat but she said that the previous life that she had had with the communication with the grandmother was very much focused and attached. Erik says karmicly carried. The energy was karmicly carried forward into this lifetime.

Elisa: Ok, well what about your life as a bug, tell us about that

Michelle: She said it was very short (laughing)

Elisa: Why did ya get stomped on?

Michelle: No, she said she died, she just died, and I’m asking her what kind of bug she is, or what kind of bug she was

Elisa: Ugh don’t say cockroach, gross

Michelle: No, No and you know I saw it first before she said it, Firefly

Elisa: Oh ok!

Michelle: So, I don’t know if they have a really short life span or something but yeah

Elisa: What was your mission in this life as Koko and do you think you fulfilled it?

Michelle: She said yes, her first thing was her existence and her example of unconditional love, it was also unconditional love and showing communication and showing that communication and love can exist across species can exist across human being that it doesn’t matter, that there is always a way when love is present and she said that was very present within her bond and that she did master that in this lifetime.

Elisa: Oh, that’s awesome! That’s true you know, communication with love that’s what connect us and you know bring us to the mindset that we are all part of a collective that we are all one. Were you here to learn that or teach that?

Michelle: She says both

Elisa: Ok, is there anything else you were here to either learn or teach?

Michelle: Patience, she said patience was a big one

Elisa: To learn it or teach it or probably both?

Michelle: She said a little bit of both but she says it was more about the patience that other that the one that were working with her were also learning because they did I mean they would get very excited she said when there would be some growth and movement forward so it became a big thing as she progressed and that love was building

Elisa: Oh that’s awesome! And I’m sorry you probably had some frustration and temper tantrums etc. so it probably was hard for you to be patient with us humans

Michelle: Yeah, she said she had her moments, and she takes her lip (pulls it out to make a pouty face)

Elisa: What does that mean Koko?

Michelle: She says like I had my moments, kind of like bratty,

Elisa: Oh I see, well we can all be brats, All right is there something that you can share with us that very people if anybody knows about?

Michelle: She showing me a human hand and she taking her finger and she’s making a little pattern in the hand,

Elisa: You mean like this (moving the finger in circles on palm of hand), turning in her hand

Michelle: Yeah, like a little, her hand is touching a human beings hand and it’t like a little signal and I feel like what she’s showing me and Erik is saying that I have it right, what I understand is right, she had some sort of a something that she would say to those that she loved, it was like a little signal and it feel like very much like a mother would say to a child, like I love you to the moon and back…that type of phrase

Elisa: Ah I see, yeah so sweet

Michelle: So she’s saying that there was this signal that certain people knew that was done with the hand

Elisa: Ok, what was your transition like, were there any insights or surprises for you?

Michelle: She saying that it was very peaceful

Elisa:  Well for Erik it was like Oh my God! For Erik it was like oh my God, oh sorry

Michelle: And consistent integration,

Elisa: Ok, that’s good,

Michelle: yeah she saying it wasn’t like that for her, she came into it and had a memory, she was aware that she was bigger than what she thought she was, she had that understanding and there were also she recognized those that were around her, she had a recognition of it. Erik’s just adding it wasn’t a shock

Elisa: Ok, and did you meet Mike, was that the one who met you or was it somebody else?

Michelle: She actually says she met other beings from other lives first

Elisa: Oh ok

Michelle: And that’s what she’s saying there was recognition right away it was like an understanding of right, right I did this, I forgot, you said goodbye before I left and we’d met again, that type of thing

Elisa: Oh that’s so cool. Well for Erik, Erik I think one of your first things was “oh my God where’s my dick” (laughing) I remember that from your book

Michelle: Erik’s like, it was like OH MY GOD! And like Oh my God, Oh my God

Elisa: It’s like I didn’t get to use it enough, I like to embarrass my boy, All right Koko before we close

Michelle: He’s laughing at me, he’s laughing at me because he makes comments like that every now and again

Elisa: Oh I know, I know

Michelle: He knows I get red in the face by it, he’s laughing at me

Elisa: Koko do you have any message or advice for humanity as a whole?

Michelle: She says don’t take it lightly when you’re told that love is the unconditional and the only thing that exists, and that truly exists, she says don’t take that lightly. She goes the power of love is more powerful than anything that you can possibly produce or imagine, and she’s saying to look at Erik and you and to look at what love can do. She says it doesn’t matter what happens to you in your life, if you understand the power of love and you trust and believe in that then you will have that peace in your heart and you will have exacly what you’re here to do, to share, to give, she says it’s so important that those don’t just pass it off. And she said that you understand that. You really do understand that.

Elisa: Love is all there is, you’re right, I’ve heard those words from preachers etc. love is all there is but it’s so true. Erik, do you have any questions for Koko?

Michelle: He’s just being silly, no he doesn’t have any questions but he’s got really big noodley arms (flailing arms)

Elisa: Oh, that sounds like you. What about you Michelle do you have thing for Koko? I think we’ve covered so much

Michelle: Yeah, no I don’t really have anything off the top, she did a great job talking about everything. She’s got a beautiful energy and she just, adding Thank you…she is saying Thank You

Elisa: Aw! Thank you!

Michelle: And she just goes Thank you for having this and thank you for giving her a voice to share her experiences and to share cuz this is all part of her growth too and the growth of the spirit as well. She says this is not just a one sided thing, that this is very much growth on the whole, so she says thank you very much

Elisa: Thank you for your profound wisdom, ok, I really appreciate it.  And Michelle, share what you’ve got to offer and where people can get in touch with you

Michelle: Well, I will have my website up and running by the end of this week, so that will be, so I will be found nice and easy on there, and I also have the Healing H-art groups and a The Healing H-art and that’s ,y blog, so you can find me all over the place:

Elisa: Does it go to your website? Will there be ways to click to get to the Facebook, ok good. Ok guys, check her out, better get a reading now before she gets booked up for years, if she isn’t already

Michelle: I’m getting booked up, and I’m meeting some great fantastic people. Erik and I are doing some awesome things.

Elisa: All right, Thank you Michelle, Thank you Koko, Thank you Erik I love y’all

Michelle: (blowing kisses) Erik says love you all, Love you Mama.

Elisa: Bye!

Michelle: Bye!

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Elisa Medhus