Fishing Hooks are the Devil (and the Billy Graham Transcript)

I’m trying to wait for the mediums to get their sessions transcribed so I don’t have to post the YouTube and text separately, so today, I’ve got a home video for you instead. Rune and I have been trying to learn to fish, and we’ve failed miserably either catching nothing or only sharks and hardhead catfish. Yuck. We need a local guide to teach us. But I did catch something 118 pounds Saturday. Check it out and be sure to share and subscribe to my channel.

Also, if you missed the radio show last Thursday, we finally got it updated to the archives. Ryan Adragna and Erik, through Jennifer Doran, discuss the fear of rejection before Erik takes calls from listeners. 

Lastly, here’s the transcript for the Billy Graham interview.

Elisa Medhus – Hey Miss V, how are you doing?

Veronica Drake – Hey, I’m doing great. How are you?

Elisa – Very good, and how’s our boy?

Veronica – Hi Momma, how are you doing?

Elisa – Hi sweetie.

Elisa – Hey you guys, in case you don’t wait until the very end of the video, and I don’t know why you wouldn’t, anyway, y’all check out Veronica at I will also put it at the very end of the video; her website. So, I also want to tell you guys to try to go through the archives on the blog, channelingerik with a k, because there’s a lot of stuff. You guys are always, you know, emailing me how about Selena, Princess Di, etc. and I’ve done so much of that, and so much has been covered before I started doing YouTube. So, be sure you check it out and we, if Erik can go get him, are going to interview Reverend Billy graham.   What do you think, Erik, can you go fetch?

Veronica – He says I’m certainly up for the challenge.

Elisa – Oh boy. Challenge, huh?

Veronica – Yeah, he’s says I’ll scurry off and go find him.

Elisa – Scurry. Sounds like a little squirrel.

Veronica – Yeah, so just give him a minute and we will just sit here; I’ve got my cup of breathe.

Elisa – Ok. I’ve got my ice water.

Veronica – So Erik is back, and I want to describe to you what I see in front of me. There is a very young-looking Billy Graham in front of me. I’m guessing, well I don’t have to guess because he said to me, “why guess shen you can ask me?’ He said he’s about 28 years old.

Elisa – Young

Veronica – So, he’s here.

Elisa – Alright. Hello, Reverend Graham. How are you doing?

Veronica – He says, “Hello” and he says, “Thank you for giving me the opportunity to continue to do what I was doing on earth, which is share God’s love.”

Elisa – Oh, that’s awesome. Pastor to so many presidents … Let’s start with the really big questions, so what was your spiritual mission here on earth as Reverend Graham?

Veronica – Wow. So, he says, “ I was the human that picked up where Christ left off.”

Elisa – Wow. Can you explain in more detail?

Veronica – He said, he’s saying to me, there have been many people that have walked in Christ’s footsteps that have done Christ’s work and they’ve each reached a level of success, but he’s saying that the magnitude that he was at was really second-to-none; So he literally is saying to me, “I literally took the bible and walked the walk, talked the talk and became the living embodiment of Christ on earth.”

Elisa – Wow. Those are big shoes to fill. I’m telling you. And it probably helped that you were raised in the age of media where you could be on TV and things like that, right?

Veronica – Umm, he wants to, he’s saying, by no means he’s saying he is the second coming of Christ, but he’s using the words “second coming” in the sense that he articulated the mission as Christ did in the times and in the way that these times could benefit most. He’s saying that the way that the bible was written and, in the time, that the bible was written, most people today don’t get the bible. And so he wanted to keep true the integrity of the word, but yet put it forward in a way that millions of people could hear and understand, and he felt that that was his gift.

Elisa – Oh, that’s great. So you know we interviewed Jesus and he said that 80% of the bible is not true; that so many things have been changed by mankind, especially like Constantinople and the Council of Trent, took out things like reincarnation from the Old Testament, and you know, the value of channeling spirits. So, now in your new perspective, what is your take on that?

Veronica – He’s saying one that will never change, one thing that will always be true is love and the interpretation of the bible is love. He agrees with the fact that there was manmade manipulation, but he’s also saying that what was manipulated was a sign of the times, meaning at the time that it was taken out, that was the message that received for that population. He’s saying the bible has not been tampered with, in his words, he’s saying ever since the original conception; I’m sorry, forgive me, I’m missing his words. He’s speaking very quickly.

Elisa – Oh! Slow down, Billy!

Veronica – So what he’s saying, is the original interpretation, the original context that was written was manipulated, but it has not been manipulated in any recent turn of time. But it was manipulated to fit the needs of the generation that it got manipulated in. And I apologize for the lack of succinctness there; I’m having a hard time hearing him.

Elisa – Yeah. You’re doing great. What, Billy, were you here to learn and/or teach?

Veronica – He’s doing this (he’s got his hand on his chin) and he’s saying that every time I taught something. I learned something; Every time I learned something, I taught something; So he’s saying what he was here, he’s going on a story about he got, he came into this life with a very safe path, which allowed him to feel safe as a conduit; he’s also telling me he had really come in with no lessons in this life, which is extraordinary, he’s saying because souls come in with lessons, so if I’m understanding him correctly, uh, Reverend Graham, you’re saying that you really had nothing to learn; your whole purpose was to come in to be the teacher. He’s saying, “Yes.” But to that, I would say as the human, even Jesus to learn so, I’m confused about that. Oh, he’s correcting me, he’s saying that um it’s not that he didn’t have anything to learn, it’s just that his soul was so advanced. He’s what they would call an “old soul,” that he had little, think of it as little pieces to put together to do the final. He will not reincarnate, he says.

Elisa – Oh, ok.

Veronica – He is not going to reincarnate, and he is actually in the process of becoming an ascended master

Elisa – Oh, wow. What do you think your biggest accomplishment was?

Veronica – Unity. He very quickly said, “unity; bringing people together.” Unity in the sense that there were turbulent times when there wasn’t unity, yet he could gather everybody under one auspice; under one premise of love.

Elisa – Ok. Do you have any regrets? What are your biggest regrets?

Veronica – He knew it was a trade-off of sense, when he came in here and fathered the children he did. He was the best kind of father that he could be because the world was his mission and Christ’s work was his life, but he doesn’t feel that was the father that he could have been

Elisa – Yeah.

Veronica – He didn’t get to spend as much time with his family. Now, he’s not using the word “regret;” he’s just saying that he feels that what he gave the rest of the world, his family benefited from, but perhaps had he been more present with them they would have benefited even more.

Elisa – Ok. Well, sometimes you only have so much time. Did you have any big insight when you crossed over, like oh my god, I wasn’t expecting that or anything?

Veronica – He’s got his head down and he’s telling me that, and I’ve kind of got a sick feeling, so I don’t know if he’s struggling with it, but he’s telling me that it, that religion isn’t what he knew it to be over here, there. He’s saying he doesn’t want the message to be to people that there is no religion, because for people who feel comfort in a religion, in an organized religion, he doesn’t want to take that away from them but

Elisa – Well, no

Veronica – but he wants everyone to know that there is no exclusion where he is, and the underlying principle is just love. It’s not dogma; it’s love.

Elisa – Wow. That’s really powerful because one of the mediums has been a Catholic all her life, and when they found out, Reverend Graham, that she was channeling for a living, they kicked her out of the church. I don’t think Jesus would condone that, so you know, a lot of churches do exclude people who disagree, so is that what you’re talking about?

Veronica – Yeah. He’s saying, “yes, yes” but he’s also saying that a lot of times people get the interpretation wrong because it is, he’s saying, religion has been a game of sorts where one person says one thing and then another person hears another thing and then it becomes that “whole whisper down the alley” and by the time it gets to ya know, six generations away, it’s become so bastardized and so far away from Christ. Now he’s really adamant about Christ as the supreme being, so you know, he’s not giving, you know, any merit or not taking anything away, but he’s also just mentioning Christ as the Holy King. There’s no other; very adamant about that

Elisa – Ok. Can you share another life that you think most influenced your life as Reverend Graham?

Veronica – He’s very confident that he was one of the missionaries with Christ.

Elisa – Oh, like a disciple?

Veronica – Well, he’s calling himself a missionary, so I’m not sure what that means because he’s also saying that he was of the timeframe that Christ actually was alive, and he actually was a fisherman.

E Oh

Veronica – and that he actually, oh he’s saying he actually met Jesus Christ.

Elisa – Wow

Veronica – in another life, and he, now this is interesting because he’s also telling me that he’s like a split from the Christ energy.

Elisa – Oh

Veronica – So he’s actually sharing not only Christ’s mission, but Christ’s DNA, maybe is  what he’s saying

Elisa – Soul, spiritual DNA

Veronica – Yeah. He’s a split from the Christ energy

Elisa – So, were you one of the 12 disciples?

Veronica – “No, I wasn’t that high up” he says, “but I did have the honor of being in his presence as he gave his talks” and he’s saying that he , Billy, Reverend Graham, tried to emulate the Christ as he gathered folks to listen. He’s saying that’s where the inspiration came from, and he’s also saying he was surprised how effortlessly he was able to gather that many people.

Elisa – So unified; you’re a unifier. Didn’t it kind of shock you to find out that Jesus really did not die on the cross, that he was saved and ushered away to France and had a full life with Mary, because that’s a whole thing about Christianity, that Christ died for our sins, now historians are actually finding evidence that he didn’t die, and that he did move to France with Mary and had 5 kids, 2 of which died I think.

Veronica – Umm, he’s saying the story doesn’t affect the message or the outcome.

Elisa – Ahhh, love.

Veronica – But he’s not saying that he’s not in the position at this time to address the Christ contagion; it’s not for him to do.

Elisa – Ok, ok. Do you want to share anything new about you that we don’t know about? It could be something trivial or cute, or whatever …

Veronica – (laughing) So the first thing, Erik is edging him on and egging him on and the first thing he said to me, I swear, is “I’m wearing argyle socks.”

Elisa – Uh oh. I had a feeling it was going to be about socks.   I don’t know, because the other person said something about socks; I don’t remember who. Do you have any messages or advice about humanity right now?

Veronica – He now sees that everything is exactly the way it’s supposed to be; he says that most people see it as a division, that we are a divided world, but in reality, we are dividing in a way that’s going to bring us back closer, because we have to know everything’s opposite before we can experience it. So in order to know unity at its deepest, at its fullest, we must know division.

Elisa – Ahhh

Veronica – and so there is purpose behind this division that we are experiencing.

Elisa – That’s so cool. Alright now, so here’s some, those are my basic questions, but uh, I guess now I would like to throw out some of the blog members questions. When I watched you on TV, you always seemed robotic, not with your body, not connected to the love we long for. Other thank “I was raised under these conditions,” explain why you didn’t really speak of the all loving inclusive energy we are.   I don’t know? Maybe that’s not even true, I didn’t really follow you that much.

Veronica – He’s saying, the first thing he’s doing is he’s got a smirk on this face, and he’s saying, “I was the ultimate channeler.”

Elisa – I was wondering that when it says you seemed robotic. I thought that’s because he’s crown-to-mouth channeling. Ok good, well that answers that!

Elisa – You were the biggest evangelist, we’ve got a lot, so we need short answers, uh you were the biggest evangelist of your time, what do you now view as the difference between sharing the gospel and free will?

Veronica – Umm, he first phrase he said to me was, “take or leave it.” It’s everybody’s option.

Elisa – Ok.

Veronica – “and you can take it as gospel, no pun intended, or you can leave it”, he says, “but there will be consequences for leaving it”, but he’s very clear to say there’s no hell.

Elisa – Oh. That’s my next question. When you transitioned, were you sort of shocked to find out there is no hell? And now I hear the current pope is saying there is no hell, so were you kind of shocked?”

Veronica – He’s saying, “I wouldn’t say that I was shocked because near the very end of my life, I began to have visions and I began to hear what was coming for me next as I died on earth,” he’s saying, “I received messages, I began to hear to prepare myself for this euphoric place, “and he said, it’s like he got a preview, it’s like preview of it so he wouldn’t say he was shocked, but when he did get the preview, he says he was not in a position where he could speak it because he was told not to speak it.

Elisa – So, what is your impression, what has been your impression about heaven now that you are there?

Veronica “ Umm, he’s chuckling because he said, you know it’s what everybody thinks it is; it’s complete euphoria. But he says it’s not without its demands, but he’s saying nowhere near the demands that there are on human earth. Demands in the sense that there is obligation to learn, he said this, he’s saying if you want to summarize heaven, you could summarize it as a huge learning ground; as a huge compound for learning. Because he’s saying the soul is never, I correct myself, he says, the soul takes a very long time to become a learned, evolved soul, and its almost like you come here, he’s saying, you get your review, you go through the process and then you pick your classes just like you would, as if you were going into school in academia; you choose your classes based on your life review.. He’s saying, “now mine are much different because I am in “school” (he’s using air quotes) to be an ascended master. “

Elisa – Yeah. Wow, that’s interesting. I can’t believe Reverend Graham is a medium; a channeler. Then, I swear to god, I get so many hate comments on my YouTube, “you’re channeling the devil”, “you’re not supposed to channel” and “mediums are demonic” and all that, so what do you have to say about that?

Veronica – He says it’s total fear. It’s total fear, and he’s saying that it’s like I want to show you, he’s doing this, it’s like he’s looking down and he’s looking at all of us and he’s saying what he sees is like he’s describing, here he goes with the parables, he’s describing it like when the cream rises to the top. Those of us, and he says, those of us that understand that we can raise the frequency, that we can tune in, those of us are the leaders of the next great awakening.

Elisa – Ahhh. Hear that trolls? You trolls out there, you hear that?

Veronica – No hate mail. I’m tired of the hate mail.

Elisa – Really. Billy just dressed you down! Ok?!

Veronica – He’s saying that what he did in his time was also very cutting edge, and it was also very, it was also frowned upon by a lot of people, but he’s saying because he had the “big guns” the big masses behind him, it became ok; it became mainstream.

Elisa – That’s good.

Veronica – But he’s saying that will happen for those of us that do this also. He’s also saying that the charlatans will be weeded out very quickly.

Elisa – That’s good. Ok, what would your final sermon topic now be if you could give one from heaven? That’s a great question.

Veronica – Hmmm. “There really is a silver lining, and here’s what it looks like” and he’s saying he would articulate that every single soul, every single being, has the silver lining within them and that they have the ability to activate it while they’re here on earth.

Elisa – Ahhh

Veronica – and it simply is through love. He’s also showing me, and I’ve heard this before, but he’s literally showing me; we actually have a silver cord that runs from the crown and he’s saying that it never gets cut until we return home, so if you think about it, that silver cord infuses us with everything just like an umbilical cord does in an infant.

Elisa – Well you know I hear that light language is a special language of love that some people can channel from Raphael or different people, angels, and umm that it can activate parts of you activate your awareness, your gifts or whatever. Do you believe that to be true?

Veronica – He’s shaking his head “yes”, and even before you finished it, he’s shaking his head yes; He says because everything is frequency, everything is vibration, everything he says science proves that, so you know, he’s also saying, he went on to this science thing, but he’s also saying there’s going to come a time when science is going to prove all of this.

Elisa – Good. When Linda Hack was doing the light language, it was frequencies I’ve never heard, and my head started buzzing. Maybe it will knock some sense into me. I’d like to know if he found out when he got to heaven, if what he said was true, that we have to be saved to get there, and that the only way there is through Jesus Christ? Ohhh that’s kind of a profound one.

Veronica – Yeah. He’s saying that’s a very deep question. He’s saying “saved” and again he’s doing air quotes, “saved” what he now understands as “saved” is really just being a good person.

Elisa – Ohhh.

Veronica – meaning you don’t have to , you know, just follow Jesus Christ, you follow the example of Jesus Christ. He said there really, he doesn’t like the word “saved” because people don’t need to be saved.

Elisa – Yes, because we are whole and part of god just like Jesus, just like you, Reverend Graham.

Veronica – He’s saying that was probably the biggest awakening for him.

Elisa – Oh wow. So the only way to heaven is not through Jesus Christ? Even if you didn’t walk the walk that Jesus did, you will still end up in heaven.

Veronica – Well, he’s saying take away the words “Jesus Christ”, the name “Jesus Christ”, and just replace it with the word “love” and

Elisa – Ahhhhh ohhhh, I like that! I like that!

Veronica – you know, all of that because that was the epitome of Jesus Christ, and you know, when you walk in love, that’s all that there is.

Elisa – Ok, from your new perspective of all humans and religions, do many followers of one religion assume their interpretation of the concept, if not specific beliefs, is similar for and among other large faiths? I guess there’s a common thread.

Veronica – Yeah, he said there’s a common thread through all of them. He’s also saying not one of them is better than the other.

Elisa – Ok. Why has Judaism been such a ripe target?

Veronica – Umm. He’s saying that anything different is easy to target.

Elisa – Yeah.

Veronica – and saying that there were umm, it was always something different and it just happened to be that it was an easy target. He’s you know, he’s also saying you know, on some level they’re still targeted; just like Muslims are still targeted, there are Christians, everything is targeted. Because of everyone’s perspective, everything is different.


Elisa – Ok. Is the bible the only literal word of God on the planet?

Veronica – “I thought so”, he says, “I really thought so, but no.”

Elisa – Oh, ok. Is there a name for others?

Veronica – Actually, this is very surprising to me; well is shouldn’t say surprising, but I heard very clearly, “A Course in Miracles.”

Elisa – Oh wow, great book!

Veronica – I have chills because I love “A Course in Miracles.”

Elisa – Do you think that’s channeled from the voice of God?

Veronica- He’s going, “yes.”

Elisa – Wow. Let’s see, is it a blend of mythology of the times as many modern people think? Now we already did this one. Um, there are conflicts because the teachings of Jesus and the apostle Paul? Evangelists, who I think like rules, tend to put more weight behind Paul. Why?

Veronica – Paul was identified as the “golden child” he said, of sorts. Paul was the “favorite” of sorts.

Elisa – Oh boy

Veronica – and Paul, but what I am hearing Reverend Graham say, Paul was easily misunderstood and easily manipulated.

Elisa – Ok. Alright

Veronica – I’m not sure about that.

Elisa – Is it true that God is indeed a big human man, with human limitations, as we learned in Job with bad temper and does he sit in judgment of our weaknesses? Oh gosh. How about no?

Veronica – (laughing) He’s chuckling. I keep calling him Billy. Is that ok? He said “yes, he’s very comfortable. Down home Billy.” He says, “No.” “that’s ridiculous”, he says.

Elisa – Is there original sin? We know nowadays that “evil” sin” seems to link to system defects but they didn’t know it back then, but is there original sin? That whole thing with Adam and Eve biting the apple?

Veronica – He’s laughing. He said there’s an original everything.

Elisa – Well, I guess so.

Veronica – He’s saying it’s not literal.

Elisa – It’s all metaphorical?

Veronica – Correct.

Elisa – The whole Adam and Eve thing; that’s all a metaphor. If he found a female and male body in a cave, how would you be able to tell it was Adam and Eve? What would be different about them?

Veronica – “Different about what? he says.

Elisa – They wouldn’t have a belly button! (laughing)

Veronica – (laughing) He literally answered your question.

Elisa – So, is there sin? Erik teaches us that there is no right or wrong; there’s just experiences that have teachable moments embedded in them, especially the wrong, really.

Veronica – He says there just is. You know, the joke he made about original sin; it all starts somewhere, he’s saying that it all starts with the soul that comes in and needs to experience what it needs to experience; it’s going to bring to the table what it needs to bring to the table, and everything becomes a domino effect off of that

Elisa – Oh, ok. Was there a literal garden of Eden or was it a representation of the soul before individuation in the 3D?

Veronica – He’s saying, as he understands it now, there was a literal place and there still is. It’s still a literal place.

Elisa – Oh, ok. But it’s not a representation of the soul before individuation into the 3D?

Veronica – He’s saying this is a very touchy subject, and he’s saying interpretation is a very touchy subject. He wants to encourage people to read the bible and interpret it in the way that they hear it being given to them.

Elisa – Ahhhh.

Veronica – He doesn’t want to dissuade people from any kind of interpretation that might come to them because he, again, he’s going back and saying there is no right or wrong. What I might see in the bible and you might see in the bible, perhaps we are reading the same words, but getting different feelings, different understandings from it, and that’s important and he said if there’s one thing I would encourage people to do, it’s to read God’s word and then listen to God’s word because God will talk to you all.

Elisa – So really you want to use your head less and your heart more in interpreting the Bible.

Veronica – Yeah. He’s saying that feelings are how our soul talks to us.

Elisa – Ok. What was your biggest achievement in life? I guess we already did that.

Veronica – Yeah. He’s saying his biggest achievement is his family.

Elisa – Oh, that’s awesome. Ok, let’s see, for Billy graham, does he now feel he mislead people from the true teachings of Christ?

Veronica – No. he’s saying, “no.” He’s shaking his head “no.” He’s saying, “I did what I believed, and I had pureness in my heart.”

Elisa – Yeah, important. What was your life review like?

Veronica – He’s saying, what he’s telling me, is that there were a lot of revelations; it’s like taking an aerial view of your life, he’s saying, and he was surprised at how people revered him; he literally was surprised at how big of a force he was. He didn’t really get that here on earth.

Elisa – Wow, that’s awesome. Now when you were here, did you get the idea that some of the parts of the bible were altered by man, or did you just take it hook, line and sinker?

Veronica – He’s saying, “I never gave thought to that. I knew I was on a mission,” he’s saying, “my mission was fueled by the understanding that each person had free will, they would hear what they needed to hear.”

Elisa – Ok

Veronica – “I simply was the conduit.”

Elisa – That’s right.

Veronica – What I say I am.

Elisa – Exactly! So, they say you were a third degree mason. This person is asking, did you benefit from MK mind control in any way? I don’t even know what that is, but …

Veronica – What I did here with my eyebrows (scrunched), he kind of did too. “No, that doesn’t’ make any sense.”

Elisa – Ok, if you were to start all over again knowing what you know now that you’ve crossed over, how would your message be different to the youth of today? Good question.

Veronica – He’s saying one of the things he would stress today is self-awareness.

Elisa – Uh huh.

Veronica – Because while the center of us, he’s saying, and he’s showing me his heart, the center of us is our heart, and everything begins with the heart, if we don’t have self-awareness, he says, and we don’t know who we are or feel worthy to be who we are, we won’t ever hear what’s in our heart

Elisa – Just remember …

Veronica – “We are clouded by the outside noise”, he says

Elisa – Just remember we are whole and part of God. When you arrived from the other side, ok we’ve already done this. Umm, a friend once told me that you had stated that Jesus’ return, the second coming, or rapture, would happen in your lifetime. Obviously, that did not happen. Would you give us your take on how your beliefs have changed since dying, and are Jesus and God everything you thought they would be?

Veronica – He smiles. “Yes, they’re everything I thought they would be.” But he’s saying he now knows there won’t be what we call a “second coming” the “second coming”, he’s saying is people, are people he’s saying, that are light workers, as we would call them, he’s using our language, people who are modern day mystics, people who are assimilated into life and into doing, he’s saying, God’s work.

Elisa – Oh, ok. Does it have anything to do with ascension? Maybe?

Veronica – He said ascension is simply raising your understanding, evolving yourself, your beliefs.

Elisa – Ok. Umm. Alright. Let’s see, hell, the devil, uh. Do you believe in the devil?

Veronica – He’s using the phrase, “the devil is in the details”. I don’t know. It’s a common phrase that we hear. He’s saying the devil is fear.

Elisa – Yes. Oh, wow. Yes.

Veronica – Yes, that’s the devil. He says as far as someone running around with a pitchfork and horns (he’s doing horns) Erik is chuckling, he’s saying no. there is no devil; it’s fear

Elisa – Everything is light.

Veronica – Everything.

Elisa – Negative entities, fear, and demonic entities are just, you know, the lower spectrum.

Veronica – Right. And he’s saying, “also it’s perception”, so he’s saying that if someone feels that they’re being “possessed” he’s using air quotes, “possessed,” it’s mostly coming from their mind, he’s saying. There’s something out of alignment in their minds that doesn’t put them in the light of love. So shift how you’re seeing things

Elisa – Ok. Are your ideas about Jesus different now than what you expected?

Veronica – He’s saying, “no”. I was one even from the moment I was born he’s saying I was one with the Christ energy.

Elisa – You are so lucky. Oh, that’s awesome. Is the concept of being “born again” still in your belief system or has that changed?

Veronica – “It’s changed in definition only.” He’s saying we’re born every single day, we’re born again. Every time we shift a thought, every time we shift a perspective every time we shift into love from fear, we are born again. We get a fresh perspective. That’s how we are reborn.

Elisa – Ok. Alright. Now that you are no longer on earth do you have a different view of the purpose or value of religion?

Veronica – Religion, he said, brings solace and comfort to many, many groups of people.

Elisa – Yeah, of course.

Veronica – The main premise for religion is fellowship, and so

Elisa – I think so too.

Veronica – He’s saying Christ’s energy is all about spreading love, spreading the word and what a better way than when you have a group of people who are of the same belief, the same mindset, he said, but what’s even better, he says, is when you have a group of Christians and a group of Muslims and they can come together and spread the love because essentially there are not Christians, there are not Muslims, there is just love

Elisa – That’s right, and I think it really is valuable because there are so many humanitarian projects across the world, I mean, you know, some churches

Veronica -Yeah, and it’s all, he said, religion itself isn’t a bad thing, but when man’s corruption and greed gets into it …

Elisa – What do you think about the guy at Lakewood here in Houston, what is his name, Victoria and oh, Joel Osteen?

Veronica – He said he’s doing a fine job of spreading love, and he sees that he takes a lot of criticism and a lot of hits for spreading love. Umm, he would say that Joel is being an authentic human being in the way that he knows how to be and he’s saying that it would surprise him greatly, from what he sees, if Joel had two faces.

Elisa – Well, I have listened a little bit to him. He has some wonderful things to say, but some people say well, “why is he so rich?”, and blah blah blah. Things like that …

Veronica – You know, Billy leaned forward and he said, “I had a great wealth.”

Elisa – Oh, ok.

Veronica – “I had a great wealth, and God doesn’t talk about us being poor, he doesn’t want us to be poor.” You know the poor in spirit doesn’t mean, the poor in spirit means the belief of love. So again, it’s interpretation. Money is not evil; what the human being perceives of it and does with it is evil, and he is saying to me that he gave and gave of his money, as does Mr. Osteen

Elisa – Aww, that’s good. Alright, here’s kind of a tough one. How much did deception plague your life and how was it viewed in your life review? He seemed to play roles of a pious religious man of god who successfully maneuvered through the business of politics with the likes of Nixon. He’s referring to your reported racist remarks to Nixon about blacks.

Elisa – Awkward …

Veronica – He’s saying “Look, I was human. I was human.” He’s saying, he’s not denying he said it. He’s saying, I made those remarks, but I quickly recanted, I, you know, he’s saying, “have you ever said something that you were sorry for?” You know, he’s saying, “I’ve done that.”

Elisa – Who hasn’t?

Veronica – He’s saying that I’ve done more than you probably know; It just didn’t happen to get reported every time I did it.

Elisa – I wonder if Jesus ever said things he regretted? Of course, right? Maybe no.

Veronica – Well, you know, he said “Yes, Jesus was a human being.”

Elisa – Yeah. Ok.

Veronica – Yes. Let’s just leave it at that. Yes.

Elisa – Did you have contact with your Rockstar cousin, jerry jones, in life and have you seen him in the afterlife?

Veronica – Hmm. I didn’t know they were related .

Veronica – “Yeah.” Umm, he’s saying that they did have some sort of contact with each other, but they lived very separate lives and he has, to this point, not connected with him.

Elisa – Ok. That’s been done. In your ministry and sermons, you were against the idea of consulting mediums in any shape or form. This was probably due to a passage of scripture in the Bible that states that we are not to “ consort with wizards, sorcerers, or astrologers.” Do you feel different about that now, do you feel the scripture is misinterpreted, and not coming from source but from man?

Veronica – He says there’s a variation in it, that’s there’s a twisting of that, and he’s saying that man put part of that in there. He’s saying there were prophets forever.

Elisa – Yeah. That’s right. Yeah.

Veronica – When it’s done appropriately and when it’s done authentically, prophesizing is what this world needs, and when communication is done, and it’s channeled with love and from a divine source, it can be a comfort and it is the new therapy, he says.

Elisa – Oh, I think so too. It’s really helped to heal me. I’ll tell you that. Alright, just a last thing, Erik or Veronica, do you want to pose a question to Reverend Graham?

Veronica – Umm, you know I just I’m in awe of this presence that’s here with us, you know, and just the magnitude of how he was the gatherer of people, and

Elisa – Just like he was the fisherman for God.

Veronica – Exactly and that analogy of the gatherer and bringing everybody together, and you know he’s saying that, you know, one of the things he’s saying was he was very stern he’s saying, with his family, and he saw a woman’s’ role umm, as traditional men saw the woman’s role back in the 40’s and 50’s and he’s saying he understands now that women will lead the way when it comes to moving things forward and getting the process of illumination and connection.

Elisa – Oooh.

Veronica – So that’s pretty powerful. And Erik, Erik is kind of just sitting here in awe, Erik is loving that he was the first to deliver a lot of this message, he says. (laughs)

Elisa – Ohh, that’s so awesome! Well, since you were a fisherman in another life, I’m going to go fishing with my husband, Friday and Saturday. I need you to help me, man! (laughing)

Elisa – Alright, thank you so much, Reverend Graham. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much, Erik, for bringing him to us, and thank you, Veronica, for being such an amazing channel, oh my gosh, and I will put her information there, Veronica, do you want to share anything else?

Veronica – No. Oh! I do. I started up the School of Spiritual Arts, and it’s very affordable. I’m teaching people to do what I do because I’ve heard everybody has this gift, and I want you to not need people like me, I want to teach you how to do it.

Elisa – That is so awesome! Do it people, She’s awesome! Alright, love you all, love you Reverend Graham, love you, Erik, and love you, Veronica!

Veronica – Love you, mom!

Elisa – Bye, Bye!

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Elisa Medhus