The Afterlife Interview with Terence McKenna, Part One

For several months, you guys have asked me to interview Terence McKenna, and he finally came up to the top of the (very long) list! I really didn’t know anything about him. Man, I led a sheltered life! I eventually found out he had something to do with hallucinogens, but that was it. Channeler, Denise Ramon, also didn’t know much about him, but we were both fascinated by his brilliance and all that he had to say. In fact, we had to devote two hours to him. This is the first part, and I’ll post Part Two Monday!

But first, I want you to read the information about Dr. Hahn’s upcoming event at my house. This is a very powerful dude with a healing technique so powerful, I’ve never seen a better one. So if you suffer from ANYTHING, physical, mental, emotional or spiritual, you can’t afford to miss this one. 

Check out the upcoming event at my house with host, Dr. Andy Hahn! Save your spot for any day or all three! In the first day, YOU WILL UNDERSTAND PEOPLE FROM THE INSIDE OUT, INCLUDING YOURSELF. In days two and three, YOU WILL LEARN HOW TO FREE YOURSELF FROM SUFFERING AND EVEN HELP OTHERS END THEIR SUFFERING, TOO. I can’t tell you how powerful this is!




Join us for an Introductory Enneagram Workshop

Friday March 15, 2019 9:30 AM to 6 PM

Learn to Understand People from the Inside Out

In this workshop, discover a simple and powerful model that reveals the nine core lenses through which people see the world, the three centers of perception – the head, thinking, the heart, feeling and the belly, sensing and the three deepest instinctual drives – to connect, to belong and to be secure. By developing our awareness of our own and others’ lenses, we will be better able to understand how misunderstandings occur and ways to keep them from happening. You’ll be happy you came!


For those registered by March 1, the cost is $225

For those registered after March 1, the cost is $250

For those who are joining us for this and the 2 day Guided Self Healing workshop and register by March 1, the total cost for both workshops is $600

Or if you signup for both after March 1, the cost is $675.

Credit Cards Accepted • Space limited

To register contact:

To reserve your space contact:


The Fascinating Journey of Self-discovery continues.


The Life Centered Therapy Training Institute presents

Guided Self Healing: Release the Obstacles to Creating the

Life You Desire

Facilitated by Andrew Hahn Psy.D., Founder of Life Centered Therapy and

Joan Beckett, MBA, MA, LMHC, Principal of Life Centered Therapy

Life Centered Therapy ( is a profoundly transformative healing approach. Through a unique integration of traditional and body-centered psychotherapies, energy healing and spirituality, it works at a very deep level to resolve obstacles to living the life you desire. The approach enables you to effectively…

  • Clarify your priorities and intentions
  • Find and dissolve traumas and energetic blocks at their root causes
  • Discover and learn the lessons embedded in your life stories
  • Be more balanced at the physical, emotional and spiritual levels.

In this experiential workshop you’ll learn the Life Centered Therapy self-healing protocol which we call Guided Self Healing. It is a simple 4 step process which allows you to facilitate your own healing in support of creating the life you desire.

Workshop includes: Kinesiology; Accessing the wisdom your body has to share with you;

Using the GSH 4 Step Process; Seven energetic practices to shift energy; Individual demonstration; Supervised practice sessions in dyads where you facilitate healing for another and receive a personal healing.

When you are Ready to Be Free…Come register!

Saturday, March 16, 2019, 9:30 AM to 6 PM

Sunday, March 17, 2019, 9:30 AM to 6 PM

For those registered by March 1, the cost is $450

For those registered after March 1, the cost is $500

For those who are joining us for this and the Enneagram workshop and register by March 1, the total cost for both workshops is $600

For those who sign up for both workshops after March 1, the total cost for both workshops is $675

Credit Cards Accepted • Space limited
To reserve your space contact:


I’m in the year one training now and it was by far the best decision I’ve ever made. As an RN for 20+ years, I knew there was something more out there for chronic pain and mental health.  The body knows better than we do what it needs for health, growth, and healing. If we can get out of the way of judgment, old beliefs and just allow, the transformation speaks for itself. Even with just one treatment! The workshops are riveting. The days went be quickly and the instructors have the best personalities. They make it fun and engaging. I had pain that I had been trying to treat for 10 years with everything I could think of. Medically and energetically. The pain went away in one session.

-Heather, Registered Nurse

Now, for the interview with Terence courtesy of Denise Ramon. Check her awesomeness out at The transcript follows, but like I have said like an annoying broken record, please let the YouTube play a bit so I can get the ad revenue from it. It’s not much, but that online spiritual school for children is in my sights and I’m very excited about it.

Elisa:  Hello Denise, how are you doing?

Denise:  I’m doing well, thank you, how are you?

Elisa: Good, good. It’s been awhile, I miss you!

Denise: I miss you! I missed the event this weekend.

Elisa: Well, you’ll have to have your own, one year, that’d be fun!

Denise: Mm hmm (laughing).

Erik:  Denise is being stretched.

Elisa:  Oh yeah, probably, yeah.

Erik:  Hi.

Denise:  He’s real excited for today.

Elisa:  So many people, and I love you Erik. There’re so many people that ask me to interview Terence McKenna, I don’t really know very much about him so, we’ll just.

Denise:  I don’t either.

Elisa:  We’ll bring him in.

Denise: Erik has him here, because I’ve been asking Erik since around noon, that we were going to do him, and I said I really need you to be clear with me on what he’s saying, if I don’t hear him because I personally don’t want to Google him and know anything about him other than I did look to see and he had something to do with psychedelic drugs but it was.

Elisa:  Yeah and that’s all I know.

Erik: There’s a lot more to be said about all of that than what you know.

Elisa: Okay. Well, I’ve got a lot of stuff from blog members so, let’s get started.

Denise:  Okay. He says hello, it’s real funny because he’s acting very business like, I don’t know how to explain other than business like and he’s not dressed business like, he’s like in a t-shirt and that. He says he feels very honoured to be a part this session.

Elisa: Aw, thank you, well you’ve been, people have been wanting to hear from you. Erik what is she picking up on the business-like aspects of Terence McKenna?

Erik:  What she’s picking up is that he’s real humbled to be asked.

Elisa:  Oh, okay.

Erik: Because he wasn’t really asked a whole lot of things when he was there.

Elisa:  Oh, well we have a lot to learn from you, I’m sure, and I want you to have a voice obviously. So, one blog member, Mr. McKenna says that you were concerned that your use of drugs may have contributed to your brain issues in life, how do you feel about that now? I didn’t know you had brain issues.

McKenna:  I believe there was a direct link because there’s one thing to use these drugs to reach other dimensions and stuff but when you continuously use them on a regular basis and to the degree that I used them.

Denise: It was like he would push the belt with it, push the limits with it.

McKenna:  It did affect me.

Denise:  I feel like it affected his intelligence too, because he’s a very brilliant man, very intelligent, like I feel like he was way before his time in his intelligence.

Elisa:  Was there one particular drug that did more damage to your brain than another? Or was it just that you used so much of it, so frequent?

McKenna:  Too much, too frequently.

Elisa: All right. So, did you go to other dimensions?

McKenna:  Yes.

Denise: He’s showing me, he knew about the other dimensions and that is why he kept.

McKenna: I liked the psychedelic drugs, I liked the drugs, I liked doing it, I liked the way I felt, and I liked where I went most of the time. I had some bad trips.

Erik: Yes, he went to different galaxies. He just really went out there.

McKenna: But when I did the drugs that was my intent was to go further and further and further.

Elisa: Okay. Is there a special.
McKenna: Because I knew that there was more?

Elisa:  Was there a particular dimension or galaxy or place of any sort that you liked more than the others?

Denise:  He makes me feel like there are, I feel like he reached a place that he would call home base of where he went.

Elisa: That’s my next question! I feel like he’s like an inter-dimensional being or an E.T.

McKenna:  Well, we’re really all E.T’s, but people don’t want to hear that even to this day. It ruffles their feathers.

Denise: I feel that he was able to travel to where he was from or near where he was from because he would be able to observe.

McKenna: And then when I would come back to Earth, come back to what you call reality. That’s what would mess with my mind a lot. That’s where some of the issues started happening because I had a hard time being there because I knew that there was so much more out there.

Elisa: Was he home sick? Is that what you’re saying?

McKenna: No.

Denise:  He’s not saying that he was home sick.

Erik:  He just fucking liked to play around is what it is. He was very adventurous, he was an explorer and that’s what he liked doing. He didn’t have any limits, he just knew that there was so much more than what we were being told.

Elisa:  Is it that felt like he was too limited in the 3D earthly plain?

McKenna:  Very much so!

Elisa: Okay. Now.

McKenna:  I didn’t know how not to be, not limited.  I didn’t know what a lot of things that you know now. I didn’t really understand too much of that.

Elisa:  What do you think about using hallucinogens for depression or any other mental illness?

Denise:  Wow! When you said that, he’s showing me how like you give those hallucinogenic drugs under supervision, he really is wanting to say, under supervision and have it in not a knock off brand so to speak, so I guess in the pure form, he’s showing me like if you give it to schizophrenics, you know this would help, to level them out and I’m asking him would it shut down the voices. He’s showing me how it would help merge it a little bit, is what he’s saying.

McKenna:  There’s a lot of medicine behind hallucinogenic.

Elisa:  Yeah, and Erik, you have recommended that too, hallucinogenic given by a supervised, safe setting, the dosage and response monitored, and you know some dialogue to help guide the person/patient through the journey.

Erik:  Yes.

Denise:  I just have chills with that.

Erik:  That would be really good to give to people with bi-polar, deep depression. Not like people that are depressed because they got laid off from their job or something but people where medicine isn’t even really helping them.

Elisa:  Right.

Erik:  There’s a healing with that property. Yes, to have it facilitated, somebody who’s very educated in that.

Elisa:  Okay.  Is there a particular hallucinogen that’s your favorite for like depression for example? Or any of the other mental illnesses?

McKenna: LSD.

Denise:  I’m asking him what was LSD, but he’s also telling me another one.

McKenna:  What’s easily found there, and you can get in a good form, a derivative from is the mushrooms.

Elisa:  Cylocyben

Denise:  Yeah because he’s showing me cow patties with mushrooms in it, and he’s saying that is a very safe route to go.

McKenna: These things are not on this earth to go to waste, they’re not just there just because there’s a purpose behind all of this.

Elisa:  Okay. You mention bi-polar disease, major depression, schizophrenia, are there any other mental conditions that you think hallucinogens would be helpful for?

Denise:  I’m asking him would multiple personalities work with that?

Elisa: Yeah DID, yeah.

McKenna: Yes, it could help but your really help to do a piece at a time.

Denise:  And the way he is saying I feel like a personality at a time.

Elisa: Oh.

McKenna:  You can’t do like 10 together and do that, but it’s a personality at a time. Also, the hallucinogenic would be good for people that are working through depression while they’re under hypnosis.

Elisa: Oh!

McKenna:  It will free them up because some people still have a resistance, when they’re under hypnosis or they get to a place and they say No I can’t go anymore but the hallucinogens will help them with that.

Elisa: So, that combo of hallucinogens and hypnosis?

McKenna:  Yes.

Elisa:  What about micro-dosing? Some people do like micro dosing, tiny doses of LSD or cylcocyben and it increases their performance at work, and this is kind of like but not completely new but what do you think about that?

McKenna:  Everything is good, but it all depends on the person who’s using it because you can’t have a dependency, like you have to have that in order to perform, in order to produce or whatever. So, if you can use it and you can say you want this to help you expand and then leave it alone and then go from there because you are able to see how you can expand, that’s one thing. That’s with anything.

Denise:  He’s showing me, like people have a couple of drinks and then they go dance, but if you do it too much then there are repercussions because you’re digesting something that’s not from your body.

Elisa:  Yeah and you’re not going to dance so good when you’re three sheets to the wind.

(laughing), lower your inhibitions. All right, what if anything can be done about the opioid crisis?

McKenna:  That’s huge.

Denise:  He’s like gasping with that. He makes me feel like our government has some say so in that. You know like they’re both telling me, Erik and Terence are both telling me that the government’s kind of got the gate open to allow this stuff to keep going.

Elisa:  Oh God.

McKenna:  It’s going to get worse before it gets better.

Elisa:  What would help?  I mean I talk about low dose naltrexone as possibly helping, is there anything else that could help?

McKenna: Education is a big one. A lot of these people who are taking opiates, who are on opiates got a taste of it because they were on a prescription pill or they got a prescription pill from the street.

Elisa:  Yeah.

Denise:  And he makes me feel like there’s one of them, that’s so tasteful, and the way he’s saying tasteful, that it makes you feel so good, not like a high type thing but you just feel so good on it, he’s showing me, that the person wants another pill and wants another pill. I think he’s telling me that’s Oxycontin is like that. If it hasn’t been taken off the shelf it will, he’s letting me know it’s going to be taken off the shelf.

Elisa:  Doctors need to be educated too but of course they can still get them off the street.

McKenna:  The doctors are educated, they know. The majority of them know but it’s a vicious cycle, but you know how that goes. The Oxycontin is going to be taken off the shelf but that’s where you have a problem with a lot of the opiates.

Denise:  He’s showing me, and the overdoses is because of that people still want it so they go into, he’s telling me the Fentanyl is one of the big things that people are OD’ing on.

Elisa:  Yeah, that’s terrible. Okay, so do you think that everybody have or they get to age 21, have a massive trip, well not massive, whatever to expand their spiritual awareness and then maybe tweak every 10 years have another like maintenance trip.

McKenna:  Yes.

Elisa:  Of course.

McKenna:  Yes. I believe that, I believe that when I was there. You do run into the situation because not everybody at 21 is at the maturity to know what’s going on. Even from where I am.

Elisa:  It could be like a vaccination, part of the vaccination schedule, okay, you’re due for your trip. That’d be funny.

McKenna: That would be much better than some of the shots that some people get.

Denise: He’s all for it.

Elisa:  All right what about DMT?

Denise: What is DMT?

Elisa:  I don’t know, it’s secreted by a frog right, like lick this frog.

Denise:  Yeah, that’s what he’s showing me.

Elisa:  But I don’t know very much, is it called the God particle? Oh, I don’t know, let the expert tell us.

Denise:  Erik stands aside.

McKenna:  From a humanitarian position, you should not even be doing anything with the frogs, because what’s going to happen is people are going to producing frogs and getting that and killing them and stuff like that.

Elisa: What about just synthesizing it in a laboratory?

Denise: He’s showing me the problems with that is that then you get chemicals in there that are detrimental to our health which affect our nervous system.

Elisa: Okay, what about Ayahuasca?

Denise:  Yeah, I don’t know what that is. I’m asking him what Ayahuasca is. Does that come from a plant base?

Elisa:  I don’t know, I think so.

Denise: I don’t know but he’s showing me that its plant based like in the ground is what he’s showing me. He doesn’t say no that that’s not good but he’s not saying yes, it’s good. He’s just showing me.

McKenna:  That’s more of a better form to use.

Elisa:  Than what? Better than what?

McKenna:  Than some of the others that are chemical.

Denise:  I don’t feel like he’s a fan of that for some reason.

Elisa:  All right. What about Ketamine to get people off of heroin? And people who are looking at it for depression too, but what do you think about Ketamine?

McKenna:  That’s a good alternative, but what happens though, while you’re giving that to them, they have to be in some form of counseling and when you talk about depression, it’s very good for depression.

Elisa:  Okay.

McKenna:  It’s really good for that, it’s better for that than it is for helping them get off but at least it’s an alternative to help them to get off.

Denise:  But I feel like it’s better for depression.

Elisa:  Okay. Another person asked, what do you have to say now about your theory surrounding December 21, 2012? Do you now believe that something significant did happen on that date for the human race or the planet?

McKenna: Definitely.

Denise:  And he was telling me this earlier today.

McKenna: This planet has been in a shift. There definitely, but that time I see, some of the stuff that I said I now see some of it wasn’t true about some of the things I stated because I didn’t have the insight to know. There definitely was a shift there.

Denise:  And he was telling the reason there was such as shift was because everybody was so focused on that date.

Elisa:  Oh yeah, oh, okay, well I bet. Now here’s another one. In 1993 I think you gave a lecture, or something sort of dissing the channel material in the Urantia book and the Seth material, how do you feel about those channeled materials now?

Denise:  He’s kind of laughing withe embarrassment because he knows that those were definitely true, and he can see.

McKenna:  I was a very brilliant man there but there was some things that I was very ignorant to.

Elisa:  Nobody’s perfect, Terence. All right, here’s another one with the DMT molecule, which are exactly the effects of DMT, that’s what it’s called the spiritual molecule, dimethyltryptamine, which are the exact effect of DMT on our consciousness are we in contact with other dimensions and realities any wild etheric entities to the expansion to which this causes? When we take it through our veins?

McKenna:  You know of course with this you do go to other dimensions but not always it just depends on the person that you because sometimes you will just stay right where here. It just depends how solid.

Denise:  And that is what he makes me feel like, like how solid you are in your thoughts and in your own self as to where, if you do go to other dimensions. It’s all about where you are.

McKenna:  Now if you take someone that’s scared.

Denise:  He’s showing me someone that runs around afraid all the time and scared and you give them some of that, the chances of them traveling to other dimensions probably won’t be as likely because they’re so fearful.

McKenna:  Fear based, but yes you do go other dimensions. Yes, you do.

Denise:  But I feel like you don’t have, I don’t know, I feel like you don’t have to take that through your vein though to do that. He makes me feel like you can put it under your tongue or something.

Elisa: Okay. Does it help to not be so grounded? Or does being grounded more helpful as far as astrally visiting other dimensions and realities?

McKenna:  That is like a fine line, because you really need to be grounded to know that this is what you’re doing but at the same time (inaudible), allow yourself to go to those places.

Elisa:  Right.

Denise:  Now he makes me feel like you still hold a part of yourself here as another part of you goes and travels.

Elisa: Oh, okay. Do plants such as magic mushrooms really provide some super natural knowledge outside of ourselves as humans? Or are mushrooms more a guide for examining ourselves internally or something else?

McKenna: Well when you examine yourself internally, you always discover more things about yourself on the outer part, so they go hand in hand. When you explore things on the out part of you, you always, whether your conscious of it or not, you’re reflecting back within our own self anyway, so the answer’s yes and yes.

Elisa:  Okay. I would like to know whether the spiritual leader Paramahamsanithyanidam, sorry people, is legit, there are rumours that he’s a scam, but he has many devoted disciples, never heard of him.

Denise:  Me either.

McKenna:  Everybody has a closet.

Elisa:  Oh, so he has skeletons in his closet.

McKenna:  Everybody has a closet.

Denise:  He’s shut the door, he doesn’t want to answer anymore, and I’m asking Erik what do you think? Erik agrees everybody has a closet, but there is truth to this person. Sometimes our ego gets in the way and we speak from our own belief system, so.

Erik: If you feel he’s a scam then go to someone else.

Elisa:  Well maybe he needs to take some mushroom trips.  Blast away that ego. Oh, this is an interesting one, how is being in a psychedelic trip different and or similar to being in the after life?

McKenna:  You really get people who are still here, some people, and he’s talking about near death experiences they get a touch of what the after life is like, they get just a touch. The psychedelics, you get to explore that there is something other than what’s here and you get to see more possibilities and stuff.

Denise: The way he’s showing me, in the psychedelic some of your visuals are a little bit amplified, magnified and kind of distorted, they’re not as clear as the near-death experience person, if that makes sense. So, you can’t compare.

Elisa:  Oh, okay, yeah, because you know with a trip, you’re still kind of in your body. I mean your soul (inaudible), in your body, so your neurological system is going to wreak havoc on some of your sensory organs, I guess. Okay, you died of brain cancer, right?

Denise:  He’s showing me there something with his brain that wasn’t working right. I feel like there was other stuff going on with him, but he says yes.

Elisa:  So, brain cancer, but also brain dysfunction because of the drugs, but did your drug use cause the cancer or did it just cause the other brain issues?

McKenna:  It didn’t cause the cancer.

Elisa: Okay.

McKenna:  No.

Elisa: Did you regret any of your drug use?

McKenna:  Hell no. No, I was a scientist, I was an explorer.

Elisa:  Okay. Do you wish that you had not used it so much to cause issues with your brain? Or not?

McKenna:  No, if I wished if I would have done things different or not as used as much then I wouldn’t have been able to, nobody would be interviewing me today because I wouldn’t have so much going. I did a lot of good things and cracked open a lot of things for people so.

Erik:  He’s cool, he’s glad, he thinks he did a great job.

Elisa:  Do you feel like any illicit drugs are responsible for mental illness? Well alcohol can cause you to do be depressed.

McKenna:  Well yes it can, but it can’t cause a happy person to become depressed, there has to be something in there that the alcohol triggers that does that. There’s already some kind of imbalance that’s creating that. But do illicit drugs and that cause depression? It really helps to, whatever is going on with the chemistry of the mind, the illicit drugs really help to aggravate that and push that.

Elisa:  So, certain ones can?

McKenna:  Yes, they can.

Elisa:  Existing mental illness, is that what you’re saying?

McKenna:  Yes, it’s like it was sitting there all along and it probably nothing would have happened to it but because they got a hold of something it showed up.

Denise: He showing me how the chemistry is wrong, is what he keeps showing me. Something in the body the chemistry is wrong.

Elisa:  Okay. What sort of wisdom? Pearls of wisdom that you garnered during your trips? Some of the biggies.

McKenna:  A big one for me is that I knew, I wasn’t a religious person at all, and so one of the big this is that I found out that there was more than just there, that there was others, that there were other lifetimes, that there were other lives in this world, in this universe. That our life doesn’t end, we don’t end.

Elisa:  Yeah.

McKenna: He’s telling me that was a real big shock to him because I feel like the way he’s showing me like he felt like we just go to ashes when he first was coming up in his years, you know like twenties or whatever that he  thought we went to ashes and that was it and he realized that, not that was not what happens to us.

McKenna:  That’s why I wasn’t afraid to do all what I did I knew, this isn’t it, there’s more.

Elisa:  Yeah. I guess this is similar, maybe it will provoke, elicit some different responses. When you crossed over what answers did you find to your most pressing questions concerning the nature of reality for earth beings that didn’t get answered when you were in an earthly body? Good question.

Denise:  Yeah. He’s showing me the expansion on the other side.

Elisa:  Oh okay.

McKenna:  The expansion. I was very taken aback by the expansion of the other side.

Denise:  He’s just showing me, and when he says that it’s like my chest just fills up with this overwhelming feeling of love. This expansion is what he’s talking about.

McKenna:  It’s just unbelievable.

Elisa:  Are you talking about the other side? What do you mean by that? Do you mean where Erik is? And our deceased loved ones are?

McKenna:  Yeah.

Elisa:  Everywhere else, I guess. So, you could actually travel, you could travel to see Erik, or your dead relatives during a trip, is that what you’re saying?

McKenna:  Yes.

Elisa:  Is there a hallucinogen better for that than the others?

McKenna:  No, it’s all in your intent.

Elisa:  Oh! I see, it often is, isn’t it? Interesting. A couple more questions and then we’ll close, and we’ll have a part two because there is so much information that we can ask you. Okay, one of those questions, you have spoken about time and the i Ching, is there something you can share with us that might give us an understanding about where the beings of planet earth are heading as it relates to time.

Denise:  Where are we headed?

Elisa:  I guess.

Denise: He’s making me feel like this person is wanting to know where we’re heading as a planet and stuff.

Elisa: Okay.

Denise: Is what he’s making me feel like this is what this person wants.

McKenna:  You know we’re headed.

Denise: And Erik has partnered with him in this.

McKenna: We’re working on being headed to where there’s, of course there’s not going to be perfect harmony anytime soon, but the collective consciousness is really headed towards where we’re learning that we’re more than what we are.

Denise:  He keeps showing me how we’re heading towards because we keep being showing how to love ourselves and I feel like the way he’s saying that it’s like with everything that’s going on it’s making people look within themselves more.

McKenna:  Of course, not everybody’s going to do or want to do it but don’t focus on them, but that is where we’re headed towards, more into harmony.

Denise: And I feel like in the way he says it, it’s kind of like that hippy vibe type stuff back in the 60’s, and to where we’re getting back to more of what’s natural, more organic type environment.

McKenna: Because we’re questioning so many things now about stuff now. Of course, you know technology is going to keep evolving, with the technology it can also help you evolve as well. The technology is real important in this time and space where you are right now.

Elisa: Okay. One last question, what do you mean by expansion when you say there’s so much more expansion there on the other side?

McKenna: Because you don’t just, it’s not like you open up the door and then here you are in this 10, 000 sq. foot place. When you first cross over you see the people that you know there and then you also see.

Denise: He’s showing me slices, souls/energies of people you know from previous lifetimes or you’ve never had a lifetime together, but you know each other from there, on the other side.

McKenna: But there’s not a dead-end road, there’s not a door, so it’s not like.

Elisa: Infinite?

McKenna: Yes. It’s like the further you go the more awareness or enlightened you get. You just keep expanding, you keep growing.

Elisa: You can describe to a human, we just don’t have the vocabulary for it.

Denise: No, we don’t.

Erik: We don’t have the words, it just keeps expanding.

Denise: He’s showing me how you can put like a quarter size sponge in water and watch it keep expanding and expanding and it just keeps going. He just keeps showing me how we keep expanding and how we can go anywhere.

Elisa: Our abilities keep expanding?

McKenna: Yes. Your abilities do keep expanding.

Elisa: Our awareness, our abilities.

McKenna: Yes, definitely.

Denise:  I don’t feel like he’s here now on this planet because he says if he was here now, he would be wiser, he would know more. Like he wouldn’t come in from where he left off, he would be more intuitive, more intelligent. He wouldn’t have to start all over again from scratch because he’s continuously grown on the other side.

Erik: That’s what we do, we continuously grow on the other side. Sometimes it’s not at the same pace as you are there but we’re still growing on the other side. The only thing is over there when we are growing and learning and doing all these things there’s no ego and there’s no right or wrong, bad or good, everything just is, everything is truly unconditional.

Denise: I don’t know if he was being watched or interviewed by the Police or the FBI or anything.

Elisa: Probably.

Denise: But he’s telling me he doesn’t have any of that on the other side, so that makes me feel like they were either watching him or interviewing him.

McKenna: Bugging me.

Denise:  They were really watching him.

McKenna: Yeah mainly because they were scared of me.

Elisa: They didn’t want the people to get a hold of that and have that expanded awareness.

McKenna:  They were clueless to what it could do. I’m glad that people are talking about this now and wanting to do something, because there is good from it.

Elisa:  It’s like the same thing with Timothy O’Leary was it, was he the LSD dude?

McKenna: Yes.

Elisa:  Okay.

Denise: When he’s doing that, he’s showing me housewives were wanting to be in the experimental part of that.

Elisa: Oh, Wow! Okay, well we will close up here. You guys thank you so much for listening and watching. Erik thank you for helping us out and Terence we want you back for a repeat performance, a curtain call, and you guys check out Denise Ramon at and I will put it here. Anything else anybody want to say?

McKenna:  Thank you. I really appreciate it.

Denise: He’s very humble still.

Erik:  I love you Mom.

Elisa: Love you and love you too Denise.

Denise: Love you, thank you so much.

Elisa: Thank You, bye.

Denise: Bye.

Featured image courtesy of The Door of Perception.

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Elisa Medhus

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